Since he was a child, D’Wayne Edwards has had an incredible gift to draw what he sees. At age 17, he won a Reebok design competition, beating out professionals and college students nationwide. Since then, D’Wayne has built an incredible career and reputation as an elite designer and creative.
In this episode, you’ll hear D’Wayne’s Water the Bamboo story about how he built his career and eventually launched his own design school during a sabbatical at Nike.
Episode Highlights:
00:45 - How growing up in Inglewood, California shaped D’Wayne
02:31 - How one TV Guide magazine inspired his design career
07:46 - What happened when he entered into a design contest and won
09:29 - How to respond to “negaholics” and people who discourage
11:43 - The role his brothers played in his growth
18:21 - How loving your work is a “gift and a curse”
22:55 - What the design process is like
27:10 - How vision plays a role in creativity and design
31:24 - Letting things come to you
33:06 - Aha moment in the design community
37:02 - Advice to D’Wayne’s younger self
42:51 - What D’Wayne is most proud of after launching Pensole
45:55 - Who inspires D’Wyane
50:45 - How one sabbatical from Nike turned into a design school
Guest at a Glance
Dr. D’Wyane Edwards is a veteran shoe designer, and one of six designers ever to design an Air Jordan (21 and 22) in its 1st 23-year history. Edwards is also the founder of Pensole Footwear Design Academy.
Learn more about D’Wayne Edwards
Notable Quotes
“I need to first believe in myself before anyone else could believe in me.”
“I think we all need haters. We all need people that we want to prove wrong. Because it makes us work harder.”
“Life isn't guaranteed to you and you have to make the best of when you're here.”
“I've never got caught up in this word called success because to me, success is a past tense word, so I don't get fixated on that idea.”
“Just because you cannot draw doesn't mean you're not creative.”
“You shouldn't limit yourself to what's possible.”
Transcript
Greg Bell: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Water the Bamboo podcast, in today's show, you'll hear from a world-class designer, creative, and influential business person, Dr. D'Wayne Edwards. He joins us here on the water, the bamboo podcast with an amazing story. He came from Inglewood, California, and built his shoe design career, and eventually launched a design Academy.
[00:00:36] Welcome to the show, D'Wayne.
[00:00:38] If anybody had an incredible Water the Bamboo story, it is you, my friend. I'd heard of you before at your Ted Talk. Your Ted talk was in 2014, right? Tedx Portland, 2014. I'd heard about you, but only through your work. I didn't know the backstory about where you came from and when you spoke, I was like, Oh, my word, like this guy shouldn't be on that stage, is what I was thinking. Just from the sort of the background you grew up in.
[00:01:06] And the folks listening to this, take us back to your backstory a little bit. Let's start with that before we get into all your critically acclaimed designs and things you've done in for Jordan and I want you to take us back a bit to how you got started in design. Like, tell us about that.
[00:01:23] Dr. Edwards: [00:01:23] Yeah, man. So I am from Inglewood, California. And as I mentioned in my Ted Talk, like I'm actually from two cities of champions. Ironically, the first one was the city I was born in, which was Joliet, Illinois, which is really only, primarily known for two things, Stateville prison where we're Al Capone was at one point. And the Blues Brothers. So those are the two things Joliet is really known for. I hope it changes. But I moved when I was three months old. My mother moved six kids all by herself from Joliet to Inglewood, California, which is the city of champions, thinking that we would, she would be moving us to a better city because Joliet was pretty rough and, you know, Inglewood was worse.
[00:02:07]She just knew it was California. Right. She just like, I get the heck out of Illinois to California. Right. And so growing up in Inglewood, man it really molded me for who I am today because you know, I was around some of what I call some of the best entrepreneurs and businessmen that we've ever known.
[00:02:25] It's just, they were doing illegal businesses. Right. But they had the minds of entrepreneurs. Right. And they just used it the way that they best knew how to use it. And so growing up in a gang infested neighborhood, best friends were gang bangers and drug dealers. You know, I had this secret that I was hiding from people and that, that secret was I used to draw. I used to draw all the time. And drawing wasn't very sexy, dude. Like it wasn't something that you celebrate it, you know, in Inglewood, you know, cause it was about playing sports or banging or you know, doing other illegal things. So, so drawing was something I kind of kept to myself. My family and immediate friends knew.
[00:03:09]But it started super young. And it, ironically I have, I was cleaning out my garage and this honestly is where, so this is where I would say my my, my idea for being an artist started.
[00:03:23] Greg Bell: [00:03:23] Is that a TV guide magazine?
[00:03:26] Dr. Edwards: [00:03:26] The 1981 TV guide.
[00:03:29] Greg Bell: [00:03:29] The 1981 TV guide?
[00:03:31] Dr. Edwards: [00:03:31] Yes. Cause that was, I was 11 years old then.
[00:03:34]And I would always see these.
[00:03:37] Greg Bell: [00:03:37] Oh, and just for the audio, what you're showing is those sort of drawing for prizes?
[00:03:42] Dr. Edwards: [00:03:42] Yes. It was a competition that, you know, you would enter, it was like, you know, draw tippy the turtle or cubby, the little bear and you know, what was real big at the top was over $8,000 in prizes awarded.
[00:03:58] And you know, to me, I didn't even read in prizes. I just saw $8,000. Let me try to get this $8,000, because back in the eighties, like eight early eighties, eight grand was a lot of cash. I mean, right now it's pretty good. Yeah. There's still a lot now. And so I started drawing what I saw and so I would mail it, cut it out.
[00:04:19] You have to cut it out, fill it out, mail it in. So I'd mail it in. And so I started winning this competition and the prize was like a scholarship to this design school in art school in Minnesota. But I was 12. So, so they, when they found that I was 12, they stopped like receiving my submissions and, you know, but for me it was like, Oh cool.
[00:04:43] Like, I can actually, I'm actually pretty good at this because you know, your family lied to you, man. Like, you know, Oh yeah, baby, you good. You know, like your family always lie to you about stuff like that because they don't know. And you know, they just try to make you feel good. So I finally had someone else see it.
[00:05:00] And when that happened, it just gave me even more kind of energy to keep going.
[00:05:05] Greg Bell: [00:05:05] Yeah. that validation is important from an outsider for sure. But like one of the things I was just so curious about, like, I mean, drawing, right. The atmosphere you describe was there a reason you had to keep it a secret or was that just your thing?
[00:05:20]Dr. Edwards: [00:05:20] Well, partly I stayed in the house because I didn't want to go outside because right outside was issues that I didn't want to get caught up in especially that, you know, so I stayed in and by staying in, you know, we, we didn't have Gameboys and computers and we didn't have distractions.
[00:05:39] Right. And so I, my distraction was to draw, right. It was either that, or look at the phone book or the encyclopedias that you bought online. Right. But I mean, I bought from the TV back then. So for me, it was just my safe, it was my safe space. And it was my safe space just to express myself and do something a bit constructive.
[00:05:58] Greg Bell: [00:05:58] Well, that's interesting. Like now, if you were a kid you could be on your phone, you could be looking at, you could actually be consuming a lot of creativity. But for you, you didn't have anything but to create, right. I mean, that's...
[00:06:12] Dr. Edwards: [00:06:12] I had to generate my own stimulation. I didn't have resources that, that, you know, did stimulate that for me.
[00:06:20] Greg Bell: [00:06:20] Yeah. Let me fast forward the story a little, just a little bit. Now you entered a contest. I think when you were 17 That sort of just, I mean, this blew anyone away, right? This contest, you entered against adults in college, a drawing contest. Describe that contest to us a little bit.
[00:06:36] Dr. Edwards: [00:06:36] Yeah. So, so after I started drawing, like tippy to turtle, I started drawing baseball cards and football cards.
[00:06:44] And at that time, you know, they always cut the players off at the knee. And I remember getting this Franco Harris football card and they showed his shoes. So I started drawing his shoes back in like 81, 82. And so then that just became an obsession. Like I just started drawing shoes all the time, back when I was 12.
[00:07:05]And so all through middle school and high school, I was just obsessed with what sneakers. And by the time I was old enough to to have a job. And I worked at McDonald's. I try to get a job at Footlocker, but they wouldn't hire me. I just wanted the discount, but the time I don't have to get a job, I started buying my own sneakers and then I would die and customize my own shoes just so I can have shoes different from everyone else.
[00:07:28]And that just became kind of my thing and my handle in high school. And so I figured like that's what I was going to do when I graduated from school was I want to be a footwear designer, but I had no reference point of what that was. And so I went to my guidance counselor and asked her like, Hey, you know, I finally figured out this is what I want to do.
[00:07:47] And she goes, well, you know, black kids from Inglewood don't become footwear designers. You should just figure out how to stay at McDonald's and work your way up in the military. That was literally what she told me. And so I'm just like, man, like. Like that was devastating because she crushed my dreams and I was super excited about it because I thought I finally figured out life right at 17 years old.
[00:08:09] And so I just went back to work angry at her, but went back to work. And I was looking at the LA Times looking for another job, cause I figured I would do something because college wasn't in my future. Being the youngest of six kids raised by a single parent, just there was no money for me to go to school.
[00:08:24] So I wanted to get some other job that made me respectable when I graduated from high school. And I saw that the smallest ads you can place in the LA times is a quarter of an inch by one inch. And it was for Reebok design competition. And so to me that was a full page ad. And so I entered it.
[00:08:43] They had a phone number, you call for the address cause there's a tiny ad. Entered it called and got the address. Mailed it, it was in Santa Monica. They had an office in Santa Monica, California mailed it in about a month and a half later, I got a phone call asking if I could come to visit their offices. So I caught the bus to Santa Monica, went to the offices and they were like, well, just want to let you know, you know, you, we selected you as the winner for our design contest, can you tell us a little bit more about yourself?
[00:09:12] And I said, well, I'm about to graduate from Inglewood high school in a few months. And and they were like wait. So you're still in high school. And I'm like, yeah, I'm still in high school. And they were like, Oh, I'm sorry. Like this competition is for people who are in college or who've graduated from college.
[00:09:28] And I'm like, well, you didn't say that in the competition again, it was a small ad. Right. They couldn't quit too much copy in the ad. So I found out when I won that I lost.
[00:09:39] Greg Bell: [00:09:39] Oh, that's devastating. There's two things in there that are fascinating to me. I want you to. Because people listen to this. I mean, they people around you even if you do something unique, like what you're talking about there they're naysayers, negaholics, like you, you know, your guidance counselor sort of giving you that, like, what we say is you know, I tell people like that, just mind your own bamboo. I got this, you know, and, you know, as a young kid, you don't have that language and somebody telling you, no, you're, you can't do that.
[00:10:07] That is pretty devastating. You think about that right now. There are people listening to this thinking, God, I got this bamboo seed, I'm going to water it. And right. They go to somebody that's supposed to help them. They just say, that'll never work. How do you, what would you advise people to, how do you overcome that?
[00:10:22]Dr. Edwards: [00:10:22] I had a little bit of help from my mother. So I come back home and I'm devastated. I tell my mom about it. And, you know, she's like, look you prove that you're good enough. Right. And you should hold on to that. And you know, she went and got groceries and she came back with this there's 25 cent believe card.
[00:10:42] And that I still have to this day the original one. And and it just talks about, you know, believing in yourself, believing in your abilities and that only you can define who you are. And through those abilities, God will guide you anywhere you want to go. And so I hold, I held on to that. I held onto the fact that that I can't get down, I need to first believe in myself before anyone else could believe in me.
[00:11:06] And so those people who didn't believe in me, I didn't put real value in what they, who they were and what they said. If anything, they gave me energy. They gave me energy to prove them wrong. And you know, I think we all need haters, right? We all need people that we want to prove wrong. Cause it makes us work harder, you know?
[00:11:29]And that made me work harder. I also had it at McDonald's as well. My manager was like, Hey, you know, we can promote you to a swing manager and you can work your way up to getting your own store one day, the whole like McDonald's story from coming to America, right? Like looking at your whole, you could have your own McDonald's and your franchise.
[00:11:48] And I'm like, no, I don't want to do that. And so I started collecting these people that I put on what I would call my thank you wall. So Ms. Wilson, Jefferson, my high school counselor, put her on my, thank you wall, Reebok, put them on my, thank you wall. My swing manager, Taylor Johnson.
[00:12:04] Put her on my thank you wall. And so I just had these people that I would start adding to my wall of I appreciate you giving me more energy. Thank you.
[00:12:13] Greg Bell: [00:12:13] That's a real, that's a brilliant strategy you think about it because as a young person, we care what other people think, right?
[00:12:21]We want to be accepted, but to sort of have your mom give you that the idea of sort of believing in yourself is more important than what other people... that is an extremely valuable gift. One of the things that I hear in this story too, is you talk about your mother, but I also know your brothers were helpful to you in terms of this.
[00:12:39] And so what we talk about a lot with people about success is having a tight Bamboo Circle, remembering the people that sort of encourage you, but I love how you take people that discourage you and put them on the wall too. Like they can be critical too. Can you talk a little bit more about your brothers if you would?
[00:12:57] Dr. Edwards: [00:12:57] Yeah, so, so my brothers, Michael and Ronnie, they were born with the same gift that I was born with to drawing anything I could see. And when I was young, they would draw, but they had other things that they were doing in life. So they really didn't pay attention to it.
[00:13:13] Well, that happens a lot with people who are born with the gift artistic gifts is they sometimes ignore it because it's kind of something that they enjoy. It's very personal to them and they never see it as a possible means of survival or making money or having a career. And so for them they taught me, you know, things that I didn't know when I was drawing something, they'll see, you see me doing something they'll come out, come over and help me correct it.
[00:13:39]And so they really guided my life early on. And you know, that same year when I lost the Reebok design competition, my brother Michael died in a car accident.
[00:13:49] Greg Bell: [00:13:49] Oh man.
[00:13:49]Dr. Edwards: [00:13:49] And so, that kind of really woke me up as well is to understand that, life isn't guaranteed to you and you have to make the best of when you're here, right?
[00:14:00] Because I was able to witness my brother 24 years old lose his life. And so that, that woke me up from being more mature perspective and really taking life more serious and taking myself more serious. And then I started to really want it to make him proud of me. And a few years later I was able to get into the industry and then my other brother Ronnie died.
[00:14:23] So it just became my career became theirs, right? My, my career of what I'm doing and what I've done has become the career that they never had a chance to do. And so my purpose became a lot more purposeful.
[00:14:38] Greg Bell: [00:14:38] Absolutely. What's interesting about that. I mean, that's one of the things, when you were talking on the Ted stage I lost two brothers too, and, you know, one didn't see age 25 or both, didn't see age 25 and it's sort of an interesting thing.
[00:14:51] So you could take that tragedy and go a different way with it. Yeah. I mean, you took it and internalize it to, I love that idea of sort of, you know, making your brothers proud of this gift they gave you and that, and so when I think about that idea of sort of taking a gift and moving forward, the idea with your with your career, I mean, you were at the pinnacle of design.
[00:15:16] I mean, like, I just think back to like, you got serious about design in middle school, and then you are at the Jordan brand. I mean, I'm just, I get goosebumps when I think about it. What was there ever a point like that's the 90 feet and 60 days. Bamboo grows 90 feet and 60 days, you get there and you grow 90 feet in 60 days.
[00:15:34] Was that what you thought it would be, or was it different or describe that to us?
[00:15:39]Dr. Edwards: [00:15:39] Man, that's a lot to unpack there because first of all, I never feel like I made anything because you know, mathematically or statistically, I'm not supposed to be here. So, so for me it like every day I'm winning like, you know, Charlie Sheen, right.
[00:15:54] Every day I'm winning. And so that's always been my mentality is that every day I'm on this earth, like I'm I won because, like I said, statistically, I'm not supposed to be, if you look at a young black kid, young, black male growing up in Inglewood in the eighties. And so, so for me, my whole career, my whole journey has been what I would call more purposeful, not only from my brothers, but then I started getting more purpose as I went on.
[00:16:23] And what I mean by that is, you know, a white Jewish man by the name of Robert Greenberg, he found me, well, I was putting sketches in a suggestion box. And so I forced my way into his world, but he gave a black kid from Inglewood at 19 years old with no college education opportunity to design shoes for his company.
[00:16:44]And he didn't have to do that. And so to this day, and every day, since that day in January of 1989, I have wanted to make sure he understood he did not make a mistake. And to this day, every year I would see him or shoot him an email and say, thank you from 31 years, I've seen him and said, thank you every single year.
[00:17:07]So I've always been grateful for everything that I have and everything that, that I've done. And I've never got caught up in this word called success because to me, success is a past tense word, so I don't get fixated on that idea. And in some cases has been maybe too focused for me because I've never really enjoyed the things that people quote unquote will cause success, because I was always trying to move forward.
[00:17:32]And just that sheer determination of trying to move forward and never be on pause and definitely not go backwards where I was just more motivated by people who helped me motivated by, but people who are no longer here you know, also shortly after my, my, my second brother Ronnie died, my mother passed away.
[00:17:51]So growing up and seeing her pretty much disabled half of her life and never complaining about it, like I said, the youngest of six and somehow Christmas was always Christmas. Thanksgiving was always Thanksgiving. I have no idea how she pulled that off. And for me is I've never fixed my mouth to have an excuse for anything, because I saw her do all of that. And there's no way I should even think about having an excuse for anything.
[00:18:22] Greg Bell: [00:18:22] That's right. I always say that excuses are useless,
[00:18:25]Dr. Edwards: [00:18:25] They are, man.
[00:18:26]Greg Bell: [00:18:26] I see that happen with a lot of people that got a lot of reasons for... I think reasons are interesting if you think about them and kind of to your point, like even reasons for winning is past tense.
[00:18:35] Reasons for losing is past tense. The question we always ask ourselves as well, what are we going to water today? Right? What are we going to do to move forward? It's interesting though, when I think about the grind of that, like I, you know, I always tell people to water with joy, you know, grace hope and joy, you know, the work, it just seems like there's so much passion in what you do in terms of design.
[00:18:59] Dr. Edwards: [00:18:59] I haven't had a job since I worked at McDonald's.
[00:19:01]Greg Bell: [00:19:01] You haven't had a job since you worked at McDonald's?
[00:19:03] Dr. Edwards: [00:19:03] So, so for me, like, what I do is not work, like, this is what I love to do. Which is a gift and a curse. It's a gift and a curse because if you love what you do, you kind of lose track of time. You kind of lose track of eating sometimes. You lose track of taking care of your health. You know, so I had I was that person where I had health issues, right. Because I was just so focused because I was doing something that I love that I would do it for 14, 15, 16 hours a day and be excited to wake up.
[00:19:37] Because I wanted to do it again and again. So, so for me, when you asked earlier about what, you know, what does it mean to, or what did it mean to, to get to the top of my industry for me, dude, it was something I never dreamed was possible. So, because I never dreamed it was possible when it started to happen it didn't feel real to me.
[00:19:57]And so therefore I never took it for granted. And then once I started working for Michael Jordan in understanding who Michael Jordan is now people because of the documentary The Last Dance, if you watch episode seven, you will see him like who he really is. He is a super competitive, super determined person.
[00:20:22]And. When you know that and you work for that person, That rubs off on you To where you don't want to let him down.
[00:20:30]Greg Bell: [00:20:30] I think it's interesting though, when you are, you know, greatness with greatness, right. That
[00:20:36] Dr. Edwards: [00:20:36] it's only when you get there, you gotta be next to it or smell it or see it like that.
[00:20:41] Greg Bell: [00:20:41] But that's a curious thought though, like, you are grinding on your designs. He's grinding on the court when you guys work together. I mean, the math is different. It's not one plus one is two it's infinity, right? You've been a part of some just amazing designs. And I know you worked in over 50 countries and you've just done all this amazing stuff, you know, particularly I like this idea where you're talking about Jordan and I was sort of had this reflection about the story I heard about Kobe the night of the draft.
[00:21:12] He went to the gym. Oh, yeah. And Jordan's like that, right. And I'm thinking the night that you get some award, have you gotten so many different awards? I just imagine you just kind of go back to your, get your pencil and go back to work.
[00:21:26] Dr. Edwards: [00:21:26] Yeah. Actually it was something that Robert Greenberg told me really early.
[00:21:29] He was like, all right go take five minutes to have fun. And then get back to work. Like whenever something successful happen, like a shoe sold really well or whatever, he'd be like, yeah, take five minutes and get back to work. Like he was joking, but kind of serious at the same time. Cause he was the same way.
[00:21:47]He was the same way from the perspective of I would get in. So when you gave me the job, I'm like, okay, I'm going to get in at eight o'clock because I'm going to get in before everybody. Right. The me thinking eight o'clock was before everybody he was already there. Right. And so I'm like, all right, cool.
[00:22:02] So next day, 7:30. He was already there. Seven o'clock he was already there. And I never asked, like, what time do you get in? I just kept going earlier and earlier until we until I beat him there anyway, 5:30.
[00:22:15] Greg Bell: [00:22:15] Yeah. Yeah. Competition is good that way, but I liked that idea though. Like take your five minutes.
[00:22:21]My wife does that to me, she's like, you know, we'll I'll do some, I'll get some great events to do a speaking engagement or you know, the book is on some show or whatever, and then she'll say something like I think it's your turn to do laundry. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I love that.
[00:22:38] Like it, all that stuff's got to get taken care of, whatever it is. Don't get too high on your horse. One of the things though I wanted to make sure I dive into in this interview is that is to talk about your school and the aha moment around that school. I want to get into that. You know, actually before we do that, before I forget, I wanted to make sure I, you know, get into a designer's head cause people that are listening to this design process isn't necessarily what people think it is.
[00:23:07] Like, especially if you're not in it, like I get close to designers, but I've never, you know, I don't hang out with people who are in the sort of design space. I know I'm not going to limit you to shoes by the way. Cause I know your brain is way bigger than that design and business and that. I've studied a couple people like (Unintelligible) and looked at them and I'm just so curious about design because I'm like, I mean, you give me a pencil and a ruler I can not get a straight line. So help us through the process of design, like, but give us sort of three tips. If I was interested in really understanding what design means, how can I apply it to my personal life, my business life. Talk about that. Just, I want to give you an open forum to talk about design.
[00:23:48] Dr. Edwards: [00:23:48] So, so th that's an interesting topic because I see myself in three phases of life. When I was younger, I was an artist because I was drawing what I could see. And it was for myself. When I discovered design was when I had to create something new that I couldn't see. And so that triggers a different brain emotion to imagine something, and then it becomes a physical object.
[00:24:13] And then after that I consider myself now today, a creative, because to your point, I'm not necessarily designing objects into creating objects anymore. I still do, but I'm more so being creative, using the creative insights that I gained as a designer and applying that to everyday life and business. But from a designer's perspective, you know, the reason why I mentioned the creative versus the designer piece, just because you cannot draw doesn't mean you're not creative, Okay. And I think that's a really big distinction for people to understand, because think about if you work at a company, like when I worked at a company, the design team, so to speak, was really the only function that was responsible for delivering new things every three days every three months, every four months.
[00:25:09] And so we were judged based on our quote unquote creativity in delivering new ideas that are physical objects. Well, if you do that, and then the rest of the chain they're not creative. Then the creativity gets squeezed out. And what is produced at retail is less creative than what it would have been if the entire chain was created.
[00:25:31]And so all companies would love to have a creative... Why wouldn't creativity be in finance? Why wouldn't creativity be an engineering? Why wouldn't creativity be in marketing? Why wouldn't creativity being sales and distribution and manufacturing. I think companies who really want to be better than what they were, or the quarter before they need to measure how much they challenged their individual departments to do something different than what they did the quarter before.
[00:26:02]So to me, like design is actually pretty easy cause I was born with the gift of drawing anything I can see. So I was born with the idea of seeing images and reproducing those images with my hands. So I'm able to train my hand and my brain to work well together to create these physical objects, I call them physical thoughts. And creativity I think sometimes people get mixed up is it can come from anywhere. It can come from anywhere, you know, you shouldn't limit yourself to what's possible. And so for me, from a designer perspective, I just see the designer part is just the execution, but before the execution is creativity,
[00:26:44]Greg Bell: [00:26:44] Yeah. Because part of what you're saying, though, I think it's sort of important. I want to dig into just a little bit more on that, because this idea of vision, like I talk about that in the book. Why did the bamboo about how to creating a vision? I mean, I start with values, you know, I know you have a really strong values and I love those, but when I think about the vision, like, like the design vision, you gotta have it in your head somewhere before it gets on paper.
[00:27:08]But I love how you describe creativity or how you described that idea of something you can't see. That is a interesting point for a lot of reasons. Like you're that guidance counselor, she couldn't see you where you know, where you are and where you've gone. Like, like you.
[00:27:24] And so this limited limitation of the brain, I find the, one of the most fascinating things, how we limit what's possible. But if you sort of trace, I mean, you kind of said this earlier, but I mean, humans are miracles. Right. We can do anything, they have done anything. So, so that, it's interesting when you talk about just those, I love the way you put the phase together, artists being creative in design.
[00:27:48] And you think about that. I just sort of be curious about how you would speak about having a vision, whether it's a shoe, a school or whatever, how does that play into your creativity in your design
[00:28:01]Dr. Edwards: [00:28:01] Again, I'm in stages, right? So just like in a basketball player , when you're young, you have all the athleticism in the world and you run around and do all these crazy and amazing things.
[00:28:11] And as you evolve, you get smarter, right? You're like, I don't need to run around all that much. Like I need to conserve my energy. I can get here faster. Right. And then through experiences, you replay, okay, I've done that before. So if I do it this way, then I'll have a greater success. Right? So you start to store all these experiences that you've accumulated over time. And what ends up happening is you start building up this database of things and ideas and inventions, and that's all about your creative inputs. And so for me, I've always stimulated my creative inputs with inspiration from all over the place, because you're only good as what you have inside. So whatever comes out is based on what you have inside.
[00:28:59] And so for me, I put a lot of stock into consuming, thoughts, consuming the way people do things. I love thinkers and, you know, from the Einsteins of the world, the Walt Disney's of the world, like I love thinkers who just imagine things that are limitless. And I realized super early on when I got into the industry, like I was, I didn't dream big enough and dreams are free.
[00:29:28] Greg Bell: [00:29:28] I love that.
[00:29:29] Dr. Edwards: [00:29:29] I didn't dream big enough. Right. And so once I got a taste of like, Oh, Whoa, like I accomplished that. Like, okay, let me do this one. I like that. Let me dream bigger. Let me dream bigger. Like, so for me it's always been about how can I dream bigger and not limit myself. Based on recorded history of things that I've seen or been exposed to of what's been done, then that's when the creativity comes in.
[00:29:55] Because I have a database of stuff that, Oh, yes, I saw how this has happened, or I can do it this way. Oh, okay. They did it, but I need to elevate it this way. Right. But it's, to me, it's your imagination is the key to being creative is how creative can you be from an imagination, quantity view. I love Disney called they're designers and engineers, Imagineers,
[00:30:18] Greg Bell: [00:30:18] Imagineers. I love that too. That's good. I consider myself creative, you know, I've written a couple books and Just launching into the podcast thing, trying to do this thing. But one of the things that I find very fascinating is it's not about creating as much as it is about editing. Is that right?
[00:30:35] Dr. Edwards: [00:30:35] Very true.
[00:30:36] Greg Bell: [00:30:36] Yeah. And what you like, like that sort of, that, that (Unintelligible) thing, like simplify, like how do you simplify you can create that's good, but how do you go about the editing process? Not only just on the creative side, but in life. Like what do you say no to.
[00:30:52] Dr. Edwards: [00:30:52] Yeah. So early on, I mean, I think all, I think probably all black kids growing up, got fascinated with Bruce Lee at some point. And so, you know, growing up, you watched the movies and you try it, you get the nunchucks and hurt yourself and your family, but then you get older and you discover, Oh, there was another side of Bruce Lee and it was his philosophy.
[00:31:14]So he was a philosophy major at the university of Washington and this guy, I mean, I have all of his books and all of his, you know, kind of audio that he's ever done. Any interview he's done or any audio recording. I have it. I love his philosophy around just life. I love his philosophy around fighting, you know, and I use it the way I create and design as well, where he talks about how he doesn't have a fighting style.
[00:31:44] You know, his style is whatever you make him do, So he doesn't go into it with any preconceived notion, okay, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do this. He lets it come to him. And based on how people have come to him, wanting to fight him, he knows how to defeat people. And so with design, I let things come to me based on my environment and what the project is. But I find that the idea of being thoughtful and being patient, and that goes into the editing from an efficiency point of view, where, you know, he's the only one that has a one inch punch.
[00:32:23]Where other people, you see them do all this crazy windup and they brace themselves and all this crazy stuff. Right. And he has the one inch punch, Because he's learned, he learned how to be efficient with his craft. And to your point. The editing and how do you, how you get rid of things, it simplifies things and it makes it more clear,
[00:32:46]Greg Bell: [00:32:46] Every third day I try to do a Bruce Lee quote. I didn't know we had that in common.
[00:32:50] Dr. Edwards: [00:32:50] Oh yes. I teach his different philosophies from his book and just reconverted it. He had his G condo philosophy is called the complete fighter.
[00:33:01] And I have this seven step process of how to be the complete creative.
[00:33:05]Greg Bell: [00:33:05] I like how you sort of incorporate, like you said, different ideas there. And so when I think about editing, I think about like when bamboo grows, it sheds, it lets go of stuff like, like one question I always ask people is what are you holding onto that might be holding you back?
[00:33:21] And I loved how you talked about like, Oh, why am I limiting what my dream is? Why don't I shed the old stuff and move on to the new, and I, that leads me into that question around your school, because you had an aha moment right. With the school. And I want you to describe that part before you decide, you know, you created or a co-founded pencil.
[00:33:44] I want you to talk about what was your aha within the design community?
[00:33:48]Dr. Edwards: [00:33:48] You know, it, it goes back to your thought of when you asked, what did it feel like to be at the pinnacle of my career? And when I quote unquote got there, I didn't know I was there. I didn't dwell on the fact that I was there and it was an interview I was doing Nick DePaula he interviewed me.
[00:34:06] He was like, you know, we were talking about shoes, but then at the end he was like, man, you've had, you know, an amazing career. What are you most proud of? And, you know, it caused me to pause because it caused me to start to reflect on my entire career. So the idea of traveling to all these different countries and meeting all these people and designing all these products for people the patents and all these things.
[00:34:31]And I realized that was just stuff that I wasn't proud of. And the part that I kept coming back to was people. And it was the people that I met that had the same dream that I did when I was 17 years old. And I was in a position to educate them by mentoring them on what I do at a professional level for them to achieve their goal of getting a job at Nike or getting a job at Jordan.
[00:35:01] And so I did that for several years while I was at Nike and Jordan. And that was the thing that became that thing I did in quiet time. That was the thing that no one knew I was doing, because I discovered a new passion that I didn't know what was there, which was teaching. I was always open and willing to share any insights with people, if they ask, but these people specifically needed my help and I saw myself in them.
[00:35:29]And that was my aha moment was I realized it was none of the stuff that I was actually able to achieve in my career. It was none of the stuff that people knew that I did, you know, from the interviews or whatever. It was the people that I helped get into this industry and fulfill a dream that they thought was impossible.
[00:35:49] Just like I thought it was impossible. And so that was that moment. And when that moment happened, I wrote down to myself, I want to make people forget I ever designed shoes.
[00:36:01] Greg Bell: [00:36:01] What pardon me,
[00:36:05] Dr. Edwards: [00:36:05] Because if I can make you forget that I ever designed shoes, then that means that I did something way better on this side, the new chapter, because I wanted that chapter not to be closed.
[00:36:19] Right. I just wanted it to be different. And so that was the goal I set for myself before I left and left the industry and started Pensole was I wanted people to forget I ever designed shoes. And so now what's interesting, obviously, 10 years later, if you Google me, you will see nothing about shoes
[00:36:42] Greg Bell: [00:36:42] I did. And I saw it was all about your school
[00:36:44]Dr. Edwards: [00:36:44] yeah, I've won more awards in the last 10 years than I had in the first 25 years. I've got more recognition, and it's not about that at all for me, but it kind of is because that means I'm doing something right. And when I was a design parity, only the only signal that I was doing something right.
[00:37:03] Was the shoe sold well, Right. And that's like, I don't want to hold on to that. Like, it's great. I get to keep my job. Right. I don't get paid any more money, but I get to keep my job and it feels good. And I can take five minutes off and get back to work. But beyond that, it was just empty.
[00:37:21]Greg Bell: [00:37:21] I love that because you're talking about legacy impact on people. I love that idea too, that you see yourself and your students. I mean, I just want to hold onto that phrase for a minute because You know, it just, because it reminds me of like, you know, the question I love to ask guests is, you know, what would you advise your younger self?
[00:37:43]You got involved in the industry really young. And then I imagine that kind of advice you were given to the students that come to the school. Talk a little bit about that. Like, what advice would you give your younger self having gone from where you've gone? I mean, like you say really, I mean, some of the awards you won pre pencil are amazing.
[00:38:00] I mean, and then you get to where you are now, but what, all the things you've known now about design, about business, about life, about education, what the heck would you tell yourself at 12, 13 years old?
[00:38:13] Dr. Edwards: [00:38:13] Dream, bigger Cause you dream, you're not dreaming big enough, man. I mean, I didn't think I was gonna get out of Inglewood.
[00:38:19] Like my goal was to get to 18, like most black kids in the eighties. And so that was the focus, honestly, so, and in some ways that was what Ms. Wilson Jefferson was trying to tell me, right. I'm not going to let her off the hook, but that was kinda, the idea was how do you protect yourself and take care of yourself and be safe in this environment that I'm in.
[00:38:42]But the advice absolutely would be dream bigger. I mean, you know, this past weekend I was in the hospital for some rare condition with my feet, ironically and a gentleman by the name of Tony Hsieh passed away. So Tony Hsieh is the co-founder of Zappos.
[00:39:00] And if you look up, Tony, this dude dreamed crazy big. Like he re-energized an entire city in Las Vegas. He created the largest footwear online shopping platform that never existed before him and people told him it wouldn't work. And he did that. He reinvented the corporate culture.
[00:39:22] Actually he created the idea of corporate culture, So he had all these big ideas that he was able to get going. And I'm sitting in the hospital and I'm working on this project and I'm just like, man, I'm dreaming too small. Tony dreamed so much bigger.
[00:39:38] Like what would Tony do?
[00:39:39] Greg Bell: [00:39:39] Like it's interesting, even as you're talking, it's fascinating, all the things that sort of come up in my mind is here you are.
[00:39:47] I mean, you're actually creating right on this podcast. I could see you planting that seed, designing it. You could see the school. I love that creative process in the momentum that you can generate from that. Like, cause the seed, like you talked about you know, Tony Hseih like the idea and the seed, nobody can see it.
[00:40:10]Nobody can see the seed and a lot of farmers they'll plant their bamboo seed. And then the next day they go and dig it up to see if it's grown. Yeah. You just gotta keep watering that thing . It just occurred to me. It didn't occur. Just occur to me. I sorta like, I like to dub guests, like this is who you are, you know, whatever.
[00:40:29] And I just don't think I can define you DaVinci.
[00:40:32]Dr. Edwards: [00:40:32] He's my favorite designer by the way. But most people see him as an artist, but I see him as a designer.
[00:40:38] Greg Bell: [00:40:38] That's good because I think I was sorta trying to, you know, I was trying to actually describe you to one of my kids, I'm going to interview, you know, the D'Wayne Edwards, he did this Ted talk and I was trying to describe, and I just I boy was ever, I said, designer, right. And underneath that as all this other stuff this creativity thing, but what's interesting that I, what I found is your challenge to education is remarkable. Like, because what you're talking about with Pensole, I mean, there's, you know, no tuition or limited tuition.
[00:41:10] Yeah. And you're and you're helping people get right into the opportunities that they want. That sort of, it's just a, it's a different model. Right. And everything has changed in the world, but education is kind of slow.
[00:41:24] Dr. Edwards: [00:41:24] Oh man, look, I always say education is the one thing that Americans paid for over and over again. And don't like it.
[00:41:33] Greg Bell: [00:41:33] You say we pay for it over and over again and don't like it, but it's interesting about it though. So you're taking a problem, right? Like. People, you know, including me sometimes complain about education. But you took it and said, okay, let's figure out how to make it better. And now you're looking at even sort of expanding that sort of idea.
[00:41:54] And I just find that well, one refreshing because the complaining part only gets you so far, right? Like, okay. So you point out the issue over and over again, but sort of step in there and what I saw some statistic about Pensole recently that many of your students are working in the industry, you know, right. In a really quick fashion. And to circle that back, you started the school in 2010, right? 2010. So 10 years of that, what within the school in Pensole, what are you most proud of in terms of what you've done? I can just point to, man, you get these kids and you get them. In careers and they're helping their families and so on. But what would you point to?
[00:42:33]Dr. Edwards: [00:42:33] That honestly because, you know, it's the, so when I went on this journey of education, I approached it as the same way I would approach designing a sneaker for Jordan, I go back to the original of everything and the original version of education, they were institutes and academies, and their original idea was a place for you to get knowledge, to get you a job.
[00:42:57] Like that was the simplicity of the whole idea. And, you know, colleges came along and the universities just screwed up the whole system. And so for me, like the bar is low. Like don't give me too much credit. Cause the bar was super low with trying to fix education. I just looked at it through a different lens by simply asking the people who benefit from it. What do they want it to be? So I asked the corporations, even though I knew, cause I was already in there. If you could create a school, what would it be? And they would consistently, they would say, well, I would want mature students. I would want them to come ready with knowledge to get to work.
[00:43:37]And the ability to be kind of a contributor to the society. Right. A good person. Right. So then I would ask the students like, okay, if you can create any school you want, what would it be? First thing was free. The second thing was, how can you align me to get a job? And then, you know, give me a career focused that I'm interested in.
[00:43:58] And then I would ask the vendors, the people like the software suppliers, material suppliers, like, what do you want from a school? So I just asked the people who benefits from the idea, what do they want from it? And I realized traditional education has never done that before. And so by just simply simplifying the process.
[00:44:19]And I just redesigned the idea of what education is, but I didn't invent really anything new, like there have been trade schools forever. Like they're still, if you're, if you want to become a welder, a nurse, you know, an electrician, those are all trade schools. Right. And those are schools that have high in high graduation rates and placement rates because their model is different.
[00:44:45] And so for me, by someone who never went to college, the first time I stepped into college was to teach.
[00:44:52] Greg Bell: [00:44:52] So great, but it's so fun. I want to honor your time and that I don't want to but I wanted to know from you what your you know, it's intimidating interview you because there's so many things I could ask or go and like that, but I wanted you just to kind of put a little pressure on you.
[00:45:09] And what question should I have asked you in this interview that I didn't ask you?
[00:45:15] Dr. Edwards: [00:45:15] Oh, wow. Wow. Maybe, you know, what or who inspires me? You know, what's the next big idea. What's the next step?
[00:45:24]Greg Bell: [00:45:24] What or who inspires you? You know, because I think that you're bringing a lot of energy to the world.
[00:45:28] I'm, you're, you know, you've kind of gone to the mountaintop, you're giving it all away. It looks like what keeps that going?
[00:45:36]Dr. Edwards: [00:45:36] It's the people that have not yet met Where I'm excited to meet these people and I'm excited to help them on their journey to get to where I used to be.
[00:45:48]But it's the people that I haven't met yet.
[00:45:50] Greg Bell: [00:45:50] I like that a lot. That's good. That other question that you asked though is an interesting thing. So what's next for you. What's next for the world that you want to see and
[00:45:59] Dr. Edwards: [00:45:59] Well, I mean, I honestly do want to retire. I do want to one day, like, not think.
[00:46:07] Greg Bell: [00:46:07] Is that possible?
[00:46:09] Dr. Edwards: [00:46:09] Yeah. I don't know, but you know, I'll tell you what my sister lives in this really small town in South Carolina called Bamberg, and I would go there all the time. And people from South Carolina don't even know where it's at, but that is the one state I can't think in, that is the one state I cannot gather any consistent thoughts. It is crazy.
[00:46:32] Even though as much as I love being awake and stimulated, by what I see. but it does get tiring, you know, it does get tiring and I would love to not think, like, I would love to just like, Just not think for a couple of days and see what that looks like and feels like back to normal.
[00:46:49] Greg Bell: [00:46:49] There's this thing though. I think momentum is a word that I love the word momentum because it you can have negative momentum. You can have positive momentum for sure. But in the word momentum, we find the word moment right now throughout our lives. There's just series of moments. We've had some amazing moments, some tragic moments, just moments are happening all the time, but the word momentum also has Um in it.
[00:47:12] And as a speaker is like, don't do the ums, right? No ums right. But I think ums are super important having pauses in our life to reflect. Right. I think pauses are, for me personally, help make moments. They helped my creativity and sort of having them like routinely in my life is just so critical.
[00:47:34] Whether it's a walk in the woods with my wife, whether it's just finding the pause moments, that's shutting it down that the craving for that just makes so much sense to me. I mean, I think that's a, that's an important thing to have as you water, if you will.
[00:47:47]Dr. Edwards: [00:47:47] I mean, COVID has done that in a lot of ways. Right. You know, the first few months, like I was in denial, like, you know, this is just, there's a flu, right? I'm like, this is going to be blowing this out of proportion. Right. And what can we get back to work? Right. And then as it keeps going, I'm like, Oh wait, like this is this a serious, like, this is not going away.
[00:48:08]And then that's when it did make me stop and pause because I was powerless. I couldn't do anything. I was no longer in control. And I didn't know how to feel. And then I embraced it and simultaneously I moved, my wife and I, and my girls moved to a new home. That's on a river and I'm surrounded by trees.
[00:48:32] Like I have no neighbors, like I'm just front and back inside, just all trees and a river in the back. So I'm in the most scenic space that I wanted to always be in. And I find myself outside just looking at squirrels, dude, like literally just watching squirrels run. But then my brain is like, damn, how did they do that?
[00:48:53] And then I had to stop, like, dude, just look at the damn squirrel, like trying to figure out how squirrel moves that fast and jumps and does all these things so I had to catch myself as I'm listening to birds and watching animals, just like, just enjoy what you see.
[00:49:08]Greg Bell: [00:49:08] that is that is a beautiful advice. Right? Just enjoy what you see. But at the same time, I think it's just, you know, I love nature. I get out in nature just so I can think kind of, and just. Not think, you know, but like, creatives, I think it's not it's not easy to turn that off. Once you get, once it has the momentum that your career has had.
[00:49:30] I think that's sort of a, it's just an interesting thing to sort of play around with it's it's perfect to be in that setting at you're at the stage of your career in your life.
[00:49:39]Dr. Edwards: [00:49:39] And if it wasn't for this or COVID like know what would have happened. Cause it would just been overload right.
[00:49:44] Greg Bell: [00:49:44] Right. But I think that's one of the things about there's this acceptance and surrender in COVID for me, like, I kind of had that same experience, but about maybe two years prior to, you know, two years ago, you know, I'm traveling all over the place, just doing, you know, doing all this stuff. And I said to myself, I said, man, I could really use a sabbatical, so when COVID hit, man. I was like, Oh my God. Not like this, but again,
[00:50:12] Dr. Edwards: [00:50:12] be careful what you wish for. Right,
[00:50:14]Greg Bell: [00:50:14] What I was thinking about you know, I'm looking at COVID as a sabbatical, really, like, I mean, I'm doing, you know, virtual programs and I'm doing work, I'm helping clients just like everyone else kind of doing that stuff.
[00:50:24] But I looked at it like, okay, what can I create an in the sabbatical that will be helpful to mankind, humans all over the place. Right. And I know that's how you created Pensole. Like I heard that story. It's crazy. So you had a sabbatical from Nike. Let me get this right. You got a sabbatical from Nike, you flew in 40 kids with your own money.
[00:50:48] You have them go through your sort of design workshop. Is that right?
[00:50:53] Dr. Edwards: [00:50:53] Yeah. Yeah. So at Nike you get four weeks off after 10 years. And so I had time, I never took time off. And so I took another four weeks, so I took eight weeks off. And I actually resigned from my job the job that I had, not from Nike or Jordan, just a job that I had.
[00:51:10] And I said, I'll figure it out. When I come back. If I come back over these eight weeks and you know, they're supposed to turn it once they do, they turn everything off. Like you can't receive any emails, no one was supposed to contact you by anything. So I use that time to, to test this idea.
[00:51:27] And like you said, you know, sent out. I had no money. Or limited money. And asked friends who had websites and said, Hey, I'm doing this class. Can you just tell people about it? And so I had like over 800 kids want to come to the class. And so I edited down the 40 abroad, all 40 in I was guest lecturing at the university of Oregon and I was like, Hey, can I teach a class here?
[00:51:50]And so you guys don't have to do anything, just gave me a space. And so they gave me a space. So the first class was at the university of Oregon. As a matter of fact, it was June 24th to be exact 2010. And so what I did was we did it for two weeks and that's technically the real time you have to design something at Nike, the calendar may say six weeks, but in reality after all the meetings and the overlap of seasons and you really have two weeks. And so I designed it with two weeks in mind to put them through the most extreme situation. And it was amazing because these kids didn't want to leave. And so we had to kick them out and because they were enjoying it so much because they could never be in a space with like-minded people like them, because they always felt like the weird person, because they want to do shoes.
[00:52:44] Right. And then some of their respective schools that they were from wouldn't allow them to do shoes. And so coming to coming here, they were in this space that they'd never been before with 39 other like-minded individuals from all over the world. I mean, we had a kid from England. We had a kid from bologna. We had a kid from some small town. I can't remember, but it was a town. And he says basically two blocks long. He came Oh Austria some small town in Austria. We had UK, Austria. We had Canada, we had Jamaica and China, Korea, and then all throughout the U S and again, they were just in a space with like-minded people. It was like, they've been friends forever and of the 40 kids in that class 34, all employed as footwear designers today.
[00:53:34] Greg Bell: [00:53:34] What? That is a... Unheard of right. That's a pretty high percentage.
[00:53:43] Dr. Edwards: [00:53:43] Yeah. They're all working professionals today.
[00:53:44]Greg Bell: [00:53:44] Oh, that is neat. I love that story. Hey man, I wanna, I just thank you so much for being able to jump on the call. All my podcast guests have to do the Water the Bamboo oath. Okay. So, I have my Water the Bamboo band on you can raise your right hand if you'd like, and just repeat after me. No matter what challenges come my way.
[00:54:06] Dr. Edwards: [00:54:06] No matter what challenges come my way,
[00:54:08] Greg Bell: [00:54:08] I will.
[00:54:09] Dr. Edwards: [00:54:09] I will
[00:54:10] Greg Bell: [00:54:10] Continue to Water the Bamboo.
[00:54:12] Dr. Edwards: [00:54:12] Continue to Water the Bamboo
[00:54:14] Greg Bell: [00:54:14] All right, man. So good to see you.
[00:54:17] What an incredible Water the Bamboo story. I love what D'Wayne said about not limiting yourself to what's possible. It's incredible advice. And one that I know my listeners will take to heart. . Thanks so much for joining us on today's show. Remember to subscribe on Apple podcasts and also leave a five star review.
[00:54:37] And why don't you throw in a written review as well? I'm Greg Bell, keep watering.