In 1985, Orlando Williams lost his older brother to a drug overdose. At that moment, Orlando knew that every decision he would make from then on would shape his entire life--for better or worse.
In this incredible Water the Bamboo story, you’ll hear from Orlando about his pivot from professional athlete to business owner, why he’s so intentional about everything he does, and why he encourages people to get started.
You won’t want to miss this incredible discussion with Orlando Williams!
Episode Highlights:
00:18 - Orlando’s Bamboo Journey
04:17 - Who helped Orlando get through the challenging times when his brother overdosed in 1985
06:46 - What the transition from professional athlete to business professional was like
10:12 - Advice for people who are pivoting in their career and it’s not working well
13:09 - Why Orlando encourages his staff to master their strengths instead of being well-rounded
15:16 - How to deal with the uncertainty of the job market
18:37 - What challenges came along the way for Orlando that threw him off-track
22:19 - How to say no
24:31 - Advice for people who struggle with imposter syndrome
27:28 - Why Orlando is so intentional about his values
30:52 - Why Orlando stays so involved in the community
34:39 - How can people develop better self-discipline?
37:15 - Advice to Orlando’s younger self
40:26 - Why “Start” is a powerful word to Orlando
Guest at a Glance
Orlando Williams is president, chief executive officer, and chief equity officer of Motus Recruiting and Staffing, Inc. Before founding Motus is 2006, Orlando started his recruiting career as an ambassador for prospective visiting athletes at the University of Oregon. He also served in a high-profile advocacy role as a player and Community Outreach Ambassador of Goodwill for the world-famous Harlem Globetrotters. After working as a corporate recruiter at the Nike World Headquarters, he never looked back.
Under Orlando’s leadership, Motus is one of the leading recruiting firms in the Pacific Northwest. As one of the few certified Oregon MBE/DBE recruiting firms in Oregon, Motus aims to educate individuals and organizations on the importance of diversity, equity, and inclusion in the workforce. In 2016, Orlando founded the Oregon Diversity Recruiting Council which offers strategies and training to recruit, retain, and promote BIPOC candidates in Oregon-based organizations.
Orlando is a board member for several local organizations, including Self Enhancement, Inc. (SEI), Legacy Health Foundation, Central City Concern, Oregon Department of Health, and the Oregon Health Authority Audit committee.
In addition to his contributions to the community, Orlando is a game analyst for the Portland Trail Blazers. In his spare time, he enjoys Bible study, spending time with his wife and kids, traveling, and reading an endless amount of history books.
Notable Quotes
“I knew the impact and the significance of making wise decisions.”
“I had several individuals in my life that were significant contributors. And held me accountable.”
“While travesty and tragedy happen, and if you live long enough it's going to happen to you, that you don't make excuses about what you're going to do about it.”
“A principle is the things that you do first before you do anything else.”
“By practicing, it allowed me to gain the confidence and the experience so that I could implement.”
“When you are able to understand the difference between work and your job, you can then begin to define what it is that you do well, that makes you unique.”
“Do a lot of things. Well, but you got to master something.”
“I think everyone should have a truth-teller in their life...A truth-teller can take you a long way because they'll identify things in you that you may verbalize, but don't actually take action on.”
“I would tell young Orlando to get hungry and have a thirst for knowledge when it comes to reading and expanding my world.”
“Doubt and fear are the two things that keep people from starting.”
Greg Bell: “Some of the greatest businesses, the greatest art ever is never seen because that person never starts.”
“Be courageous at this time. Don't let fear stifle. You don't let doubt slow you down. Be courageous.”
Transcript
Greg Bell: [00:00:00] [00:00:00]Welcome to the Water the Bamboo podcast, I'm Greg Bell. In this episode you will hear from Orlando Williams, an ex professional athlete turned business owner and Portland trailblazer broadcaster. You'll hear how he turned a horrific family tragedy into a life full of discipline, growth, and success. I hope you enjoy my discussion with Orlando Williams.
[00:00:38] Welcome to bamboo nation Orlando, or is O, as many call you. Welcome.
[00:00:45] [00:00:44] I want you to talk about your journey a little bit, because I know you played high school basketball at a very high level. You played at U of O, all PAC 12, but what I find interesting about you is the transition from being a high level athlete to now running a business and doing the things you're doing in the community.
[00:01:03]Take us back a little bit, and walk us through your bamboo journey, if you will.
[00:01:07] Orlando Williams: [00:01:07] Yeah. Well, I appreciate that first then just, I want to thank you for having me. I have followed you as well and, and just appreciate your authorship and your leadership. So I'm inspired by the opportunity to share a little bit of my background.
[00:01:20] So it's interesting for me, Greg. My story started, of course, I'm a native Oregonian started in Portland, Oregon. And it started in the mid [00:01:30] nineties, really at the height of the gang era. And also there were a lot of drugs that were happening around me. And what was fascinating for me is in 1985.
[00:01:40] And I remember it in 1985 December 25th, I get a knock at my door it's Christmas morning and I'm a young man. And it was the law enforcement officials notifying my mother. That my oldest brother had a overdose drugs.
[00:01:57] Greg Bell: [00:01:57] Oh man.
[00:01:58] Orlando Williams: [00:01:58] It was a tremendous impact on our family. And he was such a great athlete. He was a great human being. He was my inspiration. I just thought, you know, I'm going to be as fast as my big brother as I get older. And I just saw [00:02:15] the devastation that came as a result of that decision that he made in his life. And for some reason at that age, at that young age, I knew the impact and the significance of making wise decisions.
[00:02:30] It just, it just overwhelmed me at that point. And so from that moment my life began to change because I began to value decisions and I understood the impact of decisions. And so my decision to play basketball at the university of Oregon and then made a very conscious decision to decide that I wanted to be great at that and had a lot of success there as an all conference athlete and all American and then went on from there to be in Harlem Globe Trotter, which you know, [00:03:00] everyone knows that the Harlem Globe Trotters are ambassadors of Goodwill. And for me, that meant a lot. That was a decision and I wanted to be an ambassador of Goodwill. So I traveled the world, speaking messages of unity and messages of respect mutual respect for your fellow human being.
[00:03:17] And those were, those were conscious decisions that I made. And then probably one of the most difficult things that, that I could say that many athletes go through is making that pivot from being an athlete, a professional athlete, to being a professional in a corporate environment. And that transition, that transition also came with decisions.
[00:03:38] It was decisions to focus on personal development. It was a decision to focus on adding to my [00:03:45] skillset and it was at that time, Greg, that I realized that I want it to be, I needed to be a lifelong learner and started my career professionally at Nike world headquarters and grew it from there and became an entrepreneur and starting my own firm and have been doing that for the last 15 years.
[00:04:02] Greg Bell: [00:04:02] Wow. Crazy story though. I mean, the sort of the knock on the door, 1985, I mean, knocked to your knees, right? Like. And at that point, though, you talk about decisions the decision to make that a positive decisions. Well, it's an interesting, because it could just go the other way.
[00:04:23]Why would you just like, ah, man, give up at that point, because I mean, at that, [00:04:30] how old are you in 1985?
[00:04:31] Orlando Williams: [00:04:31] I'm like 12.
[00:04:33] Greg Bell: [00:04:33] Oh,
[00:04:34] Orlando Williams: [00:04:34] yeah. Yeah.
[00:04:35] Greg Bell: [00:04:35] That has got to like rip your heart out. In addition to the fact that he's somebody you idle and that you look forward to hanging out with and trying to be like, and that I had a similar experience with my, my brother. He didn't overdose, but he died at a really young age at 24. And it's interesting about that. Like chasing around your older brother, trying to be like them and do the things they do. And something like that happens to him. I just sort of see other people go the other way. You have to help me a little bit with an audience a little bit with, who helped you get through that at 12 years old? I always think about like a bamboo circle, like relationships, like [00:05:15] nobody does it themselves. And I know that you've had a lot of success in your life. And so have I, but I know neither of us can say, well, it was just me, but at 12 years old, help me a little bit with who's around you to support you, to get you through that.
[00:05:28] Orlando Williams: [00:05:28] Yeah, that's such a great point because ultimately, when you think about that experience, which is unfortunately all too common, I think particularly in black neighborhoods and black families, it's a narrative that we hear too, too frequently. And there are frankly stated I had lots of friends who went the other route and, and I had a lot of influences in my neighborhood that were doing a lot of things that would lead to different outcomes. And so my circle and then also being in a, in a single parent home with my mother there [00:06:00] were, there were several things that, that came into play. I had several individuals in my life that were significant contributors. And held me accountable.
[00:06:08]First was my mother. She was an incredibly strong woman and her faith and the faith for our family kept us moving forward in that difficult time. The second, there's an individual in Portland, Oregon who runs an organization called Self Enhancement, Inc. And his name is Tony Hopson.
[00:06:25] Greg Bell: [00:06:25] Oh, absolutely. I know Tony.
[00:06:26] Orlando Williams: [00:06:26] Yeah. Tony Hopson was there. He was a person who understood my story, understood who I was, what neighborhood I was growing up in and still did not make excuses. And he did not allow me to make excuses for myself. He didn't allow me to make excuses academically. He [00:06:45] didn't allow me to make excuses morally, and he certainly didn't allow me to make excuses athletically.
[00:06:50] So I learned at that time, that while travesty and tragedy happens, and if you live long enough, it's going to happen to you, that you still don't make excuses about what you're going to do about it. And it was difficult to lose my brother. But it would have been even more difficult to lose my life as well.
[00:07:09] Greg Bell: [00:07:09] Yeah. That's super important message for right now. I mean, people in COVID, people losing their jobs. I mean, all kinds of things are happening. People are actually dying from COVID. I mean, there's all kinds of things that are happening. I love how you talk about that no excuses, because that's what a Bamboo Farmer does, like know like the resilience, like continue to [00:07:30] water, continue to go.
[00:07:31]And that story you just told too, one of the things that's interesting is like, when you went to you U of O and you're one of the top athletes around, you made a serious pivot, right? Like that's a hard pivot to make. I mean, I've been having been a college athlete myself. I get that. Like now what do I do?
[00:07:49]Cause you gotta dedicate a lot of energy and time. And can you talk a little bit about that transition? Like what do you do now as a business leader. You know, those disciplines you learn on the court. How do you bring those to your life now?
[00:08:05] Orlando Williams: [00:08:05] Yeah. Well, well, I know you can appreciate this, that, you know, obviously you had success as an athlete as well and, and have that reputation that follows your name.
[00:08:14]And [00:08:15] so there, there are two principles. And when I use the word principle, I used from the introduction of that word, which is prince which means first. So for me, a principle is the things that you do first before you do anything else. So there are a couple of principles. The first as an athlete, I studied.
[00:08:31] So I studied plays. I studied tendencies, I studied habits and I studied greatness. And by studying greatness, I was able to take away things from individuals that I felt would be great assets for me to apply in my life. And the second thing that I did and that I call the principle is practice.
[00:08:49] So study and practice, study and practice. And those principles as an athlete led me to being an all-conference performer and an All-American, because I studied and I [00:09:00] practice and I practice more than other individuals so that when it came time to perform, I was ready and that principle of being prepared and being ready is absolutely essential to making any pivot.
[00:09:11] So once I began to make the pivot to my professional life, I use the same principles that I use that as an athlete, which was the study. So gaining knowledge, wisdom, understanding was key. And then I practiced those things, whether I was being compensated for it or not, didn't matter. I wanted an opportunity to practice and by practicing, it allowed me to gain the confidence and the experience so that I could implement.
[00:09:38] And by practicing, studying, and implementing, it allowed me to make the pivot somewhat efficiently. It's still [00:09:45] difficult. It's still hard. Just like anything worth having is. But now I find myself keeping those principles going, I consider myself a lifelong learner. So I'm constantly studying, practicing, and applying. And that helps me even today.
[00:09:58] Greg Bell: [00:09:58] Wow. I can't wait till your book comes out. No, I'm serious. That, that is perfect because I think about that a lot, because when you talk about studying and practice and anything, that's not very glamorous. I mean, nobody's coming down to watch you practice. Nobody's watching you study.
[00:10:17] I want to see you put the ball in the hoop or do something, you know, people get so into the bamboo. They want to see it grow 90 feet and 60 days, which is remarkable.
[00:10:25] But the practice and the watering and the nurturing, it's not a thing. [00:10:30] And I think that's just, it's a fascinating thing that I like the way you put them down as principles, like you do them first.
[00:10:37] Like, that's the, that's the thing that you do. One of the things I want you to talk about for the audience sake, so everyone's pivoting, you're suggesting they get the habits of study habit, habit of practice, or what have you. And you, you kind of alluded to it, you know, it's not going to be easy, but let's just say I'm pivoting in my career.
[00:10:57] I'm trying to figure this thing out and it's just not working, Orlando. I'm not making it. What advice would you give me if I'm struggling from that perspective?
[00:11:06] Orlando Williams: [00:11:06] Well, I think one of the things being in a career professional myself and, and I helped with, with senior executives and basically [00:11:15] all individuals who were looking to build a career to give them guidance and direction about the difference between their work and their job and many individuals struggle and identifying their work version of their job. The job is a task that you do. The work is what your purpose is. And when you are able to understand the difference between work and your job, you can then begin to define what it is that you do well, that makes you unique.
[00:11:41] That allows you to find an opportunity where there may not otherwise look like there is one. And so my recommendations and what I try to make sure that I instill is that when you're evaluating your work and you're focusing on what it is that you do better than anything else, then you focus in on that.
[00:11:58] And here's the example that I would [00:12:00] give. So I'm a lefty and I played much of my career going left. And so throughout my early parts of my career, everyone would tell me, look, if you don't learn to go, right, you're not going to be effective. There's no way you're going to play major college basketball.
[00:12:16] There's no way that you're going to be a professional athlete. If you can't go right, just as well as you go left. Well, I spent my entire career, Greg going left. I just made it a point to go left better than anyone else could defend going left. And so I made going left by work. And so I was able to score the basketball and I got a lot of jobs because I mastered my work.
[00:12:39] And so I would think with individuals learning how to in essence, go left [00:12:45] better than anyone else can so that you have developed a work ethic that goes along with the job that you get hired to do so master your work.
[00:12:53]Greg Bell: [00:12:53] I love that. What you're saying though, is so important because you're saying really master your strength.
[00:13:01] Yeah, right. Cause a lot of times people do tell you to do the opposite work on your weakness. And if you're good at math, until you learn English, you're really good at English. They tell you to learn math. And what's interesting about that strategy, I find, is why it doesn't work a lot. You just get this generalist, you're not an expert at anything.
[00:13:19] Orlando Williams: [00:13:19] That's right.
[00:13:19] Greg Bell: [00:13:19] And I love that sort of like go deep into that. And then that other point about differentiating between job and work is very it's, it's subtle, but really an interesting [00:13:30] one because you talk about purpose and passion. And one of the piece of advice I've given people, I'm kind of backing off it a little bit because, you know, people say I think Steve Jobs, he was like, follow your passion. I'm like, well, you should, if it's profitable, but that dance between, you know, like it's not profitable, you know, you like eating pizza, well, that's, that's not gonna work. But help me a little bit with that.
[00:13:54]At Motus, you guys have a wide array of people you help get opportunities. I get that part. But when you help folks with this idea of like master your left, when you say that in all their lives have been told to be well-rounded yeah. How, how does that jive with them? How do people take that?
[00:14:13] Orlando Williams: [00:14:13] Yeah, well, there's, there's an [00:14:15] area of specialization that does not preclude you from being good at other things. And I think I want to be clear about that is that when we're working with individuals and as you mentioned, the Motus, we have several disciplines. We have technology, we have finance and accounting, we have professional services and all of those are verticals that we operate in. Within those verticals, we have individuals that specialize in certain areas. You know, we wouldn't tell a Vice President of Tax, to decide that they want to go be a financial analyst or a VP of finance. So, I mean, that's just not a realistic career choice.
[00:14:48] So we'd begin to allow individuals and identify individuals who are very good at what they do in the vertical that they're in. It doesn't mean that they can't understand finance. In fact, A very good tax professional [00:15:00] is going to understand the impacts of their work on finance. So understanding those nuances is going to be key.
[00:15:07] So it doesn't preclude you from gaining other skills if you master the one that is your work that you're really good at. And I think that's where people struggle it because you're right, as people grow and they develop people try to tell them to be well-rounded in a lot of different areas.
[00:15:23] But I think they forget the common phrase where people say a Jack of all trades and a master of none. Well, It's actually Jack of all trades and a master of one. And so you think about that, you think, well, yes, I mastered this one thing, but I do a lot of things well, and I think for career development, we [00:15:45] try to coach individuals in that area.
[00:15:46] It's like, yeah, do a lot of things. Well, but you got to master something.
[00:15:49]Greg Bell: [00:15:49] That makes so much more sense. You're saying and, right? Because you're not saying, you know, don't dump your strengths, no you should have some others. I liked that idea, Jack of all trades and master one.
[00:16:01] I liked that. When you when you think about, you know, people now, as they sort of, as the economy sort of, Not necessarily economy, but just the uncertainty in the job market. And somebody just graduated, let's say they just graduated college. What kinds of things would you have them think about?
[00:16:16] I mean, who were, are we're in COVID, they just finished school, they don't have any work experience and all these things. How would you coach somebody in that sort of, you know, in that, in that range sort of deal with what we're dealing with.
[00:16:29] Orlando Williams: [00:16:29] Yeah, [00:16:30] that's such a great question. And it's, I'm going to allude to something that you said earlier, you talked about having your Bamboo Influence. Your individuals around you that can help you grow.
[00:16:40]For those individuals who are new to their career, it's important to have individuals that you can call upon that will give you guidance and direction. And it's even better if you can spend time working with those individuals. So I'm a huge proponent of mentorships. And sponsorships. Finding individuals that will sponsor you. And sponsoring doesn't mean that they're contributing financially, although that helps. It doesn't mean that they're contributing financially, but it means that they're the person who is going to speak on your behalf. They're going to be in the room when you're not, and they're going to speak for you when you can. And then the mentorships are going to be the individuals who would [00:17:15] allow you to grow based on their guidance and their direction, and maybe they specialize in an area that you have interested in and that you have a desire in. And then finally, what I would also say is internships. If, if we're in a place in a time where organizations may be struggling or the, the culture around us may be struggling, this is a great time to maybe flex your internship and your learning muscles rather than maybe your financial growth muscles. There are times where, you know, you can do full body workout as an athlete. I like to kind of defer to those, those types of terms. You know, there's some times it goes to the gym and it's time to do a full body workout because I don't have time to maybe isolate a muscle, but then there are times where I might develop or understand that I need to [00:18:00] focus on a certain part of my body so I can continue to develop. Well in times like this, where there's so much uncertainty.
[00:18:08] Were you focusing on that internship muscle, where you begin to develop your skill and create a circle of individuals who are going to help you grow and cultivate so that you can actually come out of this ahead. This is an opportunity for growth. It's an opportunity for learning.
[00:18:22] And I think internships, mentorships, and sponsorships are the great ways to alleviate and accommodate that.
[00:18:28]Greg Bell: [00:18:28] One of the things that I try to help people think about is viewing their future self post COVID, you know, who are you going to be like?
[00:18:35] Who do you want to be? You know, one way, you know, stay positive and sort of move forward. I love how you talk about that because that's, that's a really interesting thing, when I think [00:18:45] about trying to advise people to sort of move through it, everybody wants it to be over. I get that. But what are you going to do today? To, to be better, have a better tomorrow. That's kind of what I hear you saying. That's really important.
[00:18:57]But I want to take you back a little bit and just sort of help me, help the audience. Think through a couple of things that I know you've gone through in your life, the challenge, you know, of your brother passing in that.
[00:19:05] But yeah, you've had some challenges to get to where you are and I sorta like you to help. People think about like maybe have us the way I like to think about it as pandas. Like, you know, you're moving along in your life and these pandas show up, everyone thinks they're cute and nice, but they actually throw you off track.
[00:19:22] They eat your bamboo and it's awful. But can you share a Panda, something that you had to overcome and what you did to do that and [00:19:30] how that helped you have the success that you're having today?
[00:19:32]Orlando Williams: [00:19:32] That's a great analogy the Panda, that that's a great analogy.
[00:19:36]And I like to think of them in many cases as distraction. Or competing harvests. So if I would call it a competing harvest, what I would say is that in the early stages of starting a company, you want to, in many cases you want to be all things to all people. And so there are so much stimuli coming at you that you decide that you're going to take on all of these new things and all of these adventures.
[00:20:01] And you're hoping that one of them works out and ultimately those are competing harvest and they are a distraction because they take you away from the things that you do well, and they take you away from the focus of maybe why you decided to start a company or be an [00:20:15] entrepreneur, or start a new career in the first place.
[00:20:17] And you have to be very weary of competing harvest. Because early on in our company, when we started our organization, we started as an accounting and finance placement firm. Executive search in that particular space. And we would get particularly interesting requests. We would get requests for for machinists and for engineers.
[00:20:37] And we get all these things and early on, I would take those on. And all of a sudden I would ask my team to pivot from being accounting and finance focused, to engineering or machinist or, or general labor focused. And those were significant drains. And what I found is that we would be taking away from our ability to do one thing well, to not [00:21:00] doing anything at all. And that became a significant distraction and, and ultimately that cost us, it cost us cashflow, it costs us developmental. Our development was not normal. I would even say that we would have abnormal development as a result of that. And because we weren't developing normal as an organization, it began to challenge our operational efficiency, our cashflow.
[00:21:21] Who our identity was, how we marketed ourselves. And so those types of challenges almost cost me the organization. It almost cost us our existence, but we had to retool and refocus and get to a place where we understood who we are, and what we were meant to do. And once we refocused on that, we began to right the ship and the cash flow improved and, and our marketing and our messaging [00:21:45] improved.
[00:21:45] And now we're clear. It's the great thing about having tenure and understanding what your harvest is, is that we have now the ability to know who we are, know what it is that we want to accomplish it and focus on that value. And as a result of that, we'd be a thriving organization. And I would encourage anyone who's considering a lot of different opportunities to really hone in and focusing on who you are and what it is that you do because competing harvests, can dilute your message, can dilute your efforts, and ultimately can starve out your organization. And you know, when you starve, you die. So that's what I would say.
[00:22:20] Greg Bell: [00:22:20] Yeah. That's, that's really good. Even for the individual. When I wrote Water the Bamboo, it was very interesting, I was thinking about like, you know, what, you know, just kind of looking at the recipe [00:22:30] for success. And the first thing I started with was what are your values?
[00:22:33] What do you care about? Then we look at vision, but I love how you talk about making that super clear, but you're right, pandas are flirts and distractions. You're going along and somebody ask you basically for something you're like, Oh, I can do that. I can do that. And then next thing you know, you're off your farm. You're, you're not even Watering Your Bamboo. You're watering somebody else's bamboo.
[00:22:55] Orlando Williams: [00:22:55] Right.
[00:22:55] Greg Bell: [00:22:55] And pandas are cute, but they they're evil. My kids hate it when I say that. Yeah.
[00:23:03] Orlando Williams: [00:23:03] They're great to look at.
[00:23:04] Greg Bell: [00:23:04] Yeah. There's this something about saying yes. When people ask, like that's sort of a normal, you know, you want to be helpful. You want to be all things to all people. That's sort of a natural [00:23:15] inclination, particularly in a business environment, but. How do you say no? Like how do you know that that part of it is, is kind of a struggle for a lot of people?
[00:23:24] It's easy to say yes. And then you get overwhelmed. I think that on an individual level that happens, but I imagine in a company, as you describe, it happens quite a bit.
[00:23:33] Orlando Williams: [00:23:33] You know that that's, that's fascinating because when you think about that, I, I think there's an, there's an art and a science to saying no.
[00:23:40]The artful aspect of it is making sure that the communication of the messaging behind the nois not that I can't help you, that those are two different messages. So one of them is being no, being artful is making sure that it's not a I can't help you no. So our ability to help people is comprehensive.
[00:24:00] [00:24:00] There's so many ways we can help people, but we may not be the ones who can do the work. So making sure that you're referring or providing insight and guidance and information is going to be keen to saying no. And I think that's the art. The science is making sure that you're not the person who is the one who's doing the work and that you don't end up with it and being overwhelmed as you described.
[00:24:21] So I think there's an art and a science behind saying, no, this is no doesn't mean I can't help you. And that's where we have to make the delineation.
[00:24:29] Greg Bell: [00:24:29] Man. That's good. I I'm going to start using that. That's super helpful. What I, I try to do is say no with a smile on my face, like sustain the relationship is super important.
[00:24:41] Like it's not, I'm not saying no, I don't like you, I'm saying I'm not gonna [00:24:45] do that. Right. I'm not gonna do that. But I like how you put a be helpful and make it comprehensive. I'll have to add that to my tool toolkit. That that is super helpful.
[00:24:55]One of the questions I'm just curious about, this is one that I've sort of struggle with answering, people have asked me this question, and this is about imposter syndrome, right? So there's this term out there, fake it till you make it, you know? And I particularly don't like that so much. I like, I want to study and practice until I know what I'm doing, you know, before I show up.
[00:25:16]But I want you to help people think through that notion of imposter syndrome, because I think it happens a lot to people where they get stuck with this. They maybe get in a job and they don't think they're qualified or just that gap between I'm not good [00:25:30] enough, even though I am where I am. Talk through that if you would.
[00:25:34]Orlando Williams: [00:25:34] What I would say is that where individuals confuse a seed with the actual, you use the bamboo with the growth, right? So the seed is what someone sees as the potential. And the result of that seed is the full growth of the usage of what that seed becomes.
[00:25:52] And so we should never discount the fact that someone sees in us the potential, the seed to be great, or the seed to provide the solution. And so the imposter syndrome comes in when individuals don't recognize the greatness that they have, and that's the seed that someone else has seen and they see the potential.
[00:26:10] So the fake it till you make it is a discounted or a diluted [00:26:15] response to someone who has a seed of the ability that is going to be needed for the future. Now, the watering is where you're talking about the growth and what most people use as a misnomer of the faking it part. No that's actually the watering part.
[00:26:29] So when you have the seed and you're growing something, so sometimes you do need to say yes to things that you have the seed of the ability, as long as you're willing to water that ability to produce the result that you ultimately want. There are times where I might take on an opportunity where I am still in the seed phase.
[00:26:49] But I also know how to water really well. So as a result of me knowing that the seed exists and I do have enough knowledge to take on that and create an outcome, I'm [00:27:00] still watering while I'm going through the process. And that's okay. Because the growth that you experienced while going through that process, is enough for the individuals that you're helping to get the result that they want.
[00:27:12] And I think that's where people come with the fake it till you make it, it doesn't mean that you don't have it, or do you don't possess it. And that you're going to try to possess it at some miraculous point. No, it's the process of growth that someone has seen in you and they allow you to grow while you're doing the work, but you already possess the seed.
[00:27:32] Greg Bell: [00:27:32] I love that. That's a good way to think about it because I think that's so, so important. Because I always think that. If you plant a seed and start watering it, you're going to grow too, like, that's kinda what you're saying. Like the individual grows. I know I've [00:27:45] grown a ton just by showing up, you know, like not knowing what I'm doing. Like, Hey, what's in here.
[00:27:50] And I think that it's interesting about intent though. There's a couple things I know about you. It's very interesting. I always try to like nail somebody to a word, but you're probably not that person. I don't think I could do it. Athlete, business guy, does everything, so I can't quite nail it, but there's something about you that, that's a very interesting, I love to what you, what you talked about.
[00:28:13] The decisions and being intentional. So I do right now think about like your, your intention, like, have you always had that intention or was that something that happened, like when you were like, when your brother passed? You seem very, not calculated, that's not the right word, but if you're [00:28:30] going to do it, it feels so intentional. Am I accurate,or, what are your thoughts?
[00:28:35] Orlando Williams: [00:28:35] Wow, that is incredibly insightful. So I have almost a business plan for my life, so to speak. And so I am intentional. And, and so the things that I choose Greg are things that are already in alignment with my values.
[00:28:49]For example, I serve on several boards. But the organizations that I serve on are in alignment with things that I value. So I like to help people that are homeless. So I make a conscious choice to participate in organizations that support the homeless. I appreciate youth and education.
[00:29:06] So I serve on boards that are youth and education focused. So, and I, I believe in jobs and helping individuals find gainful employment. [00:29:15] So I focus my business and the organizations that I support in those areas. So in that regard, I am intentional. And intentionality breeds efficiency, and I think efficiency breeds wonderful outcomes and harvest that are plentiful, that you can help more people.
[00:29:32] So, so in that regard, yes, intentionality has to be a part, I think. Of a person's business plan for their life. I value family and my marriage. So I focus in on things that are gonna enhance my marriage and my relationship with my wife and our relationship with my kids and spending time with them. So the things that I value are also in alignment with the things that I choose to do, and that makes life choices very easy.
[00:29:56]So I don't feel overwhelmed and I don't feel out of place when I'm actually [00:30:00] making a choice or aren't supporting an initiative. Or I'm making a decision at work, decision support, and making desiring outcomes that I hope are going to determine my future are going to always be in alignment with my values.
[00:30:13] And you know, it doesn't always work perfectly, of course, you know, but, but for the most part, if I find that my values are aligned with the decisions that I've made and the things that I support are in alignment with my values, then I'm always going to be on the right path.
[00:30:26] Greg Bell: [00:30:26] Wow. That's solid. That's one of the reasons I subtly started the book with values, because I always feel like if a person were to mind, the gap between where they are and their values they'll be happier. One of the things that's just fascinating, what you were talking about is something like you're, you're like a machine, like that's so efficient and intentional like [00:30:45] line my values up.
[00:30:45] I mean, I, I love that thought, but it's interesting to me that I could witness that like in you, like just kinda, you know, in a, almost like, Oh, this guy is very intentional about what he's up to. I didn't realize that when you talked about working with the youth and the homeless and employment, I didn't realize that part of it.
[00:31:04] I remember I knew you served on a few boards, but I didn't understand that part of it. I appreciate you sharing that. One of the things that makes me think about though, is there, there is this this part of Bamboo Farmers that I always think about when I think about Bamboo Farmers, you're definitely a Bamboo Farmer.
[00:31:21]They always do this, every single one I've ever seen. You know, whether they know their Water the Bamboo or not, they do this, they think about other people. It's [00:31:30] actually a strange thing, I think, because I think there are some people who go out and make a lot of money or whatever, and don't think about anybody else.
[00:31:37] I don't consider them Bamboo Farmers. Like that is not a Bamboo Farmer, but the intentionality about helping people in the community, helping people move forward. Where does that come from in you? Like what's your reason and why do you do that?
[00:31:49]Orlando Williams: [00:31:49] I think it comes from something that you said very, very early in our conversation, which is that when you're, if you're going to be successful, you know, that, and you witnessed and acknowledged successful people, you know, that they didn't get there on their own.
[00:32:01]And there's a very, very good chance that they aren't staying there on their own. That there's a army of people around them that are keeping them there. So that's, that's a truth that I hold on to. And, and I'll give you an example. When I was in high [00:32:15] school, I had a coach, his name was Don Emery, and I always wanted to be a shooter, Greg, as you know, I mean, the three-point shot is a is a friend of mine. I wanted to have that skill. And he watched me in practice one day and I was an okay shooter. And he pulled me aside and he said, Hey, Orlando, you really need to have this pocket in your hand between your thumb and your pinky, there needs to be this little shot pocket that allows you to control the ball better when you shoot.
[00:32:42] And from that seed that he planted in me, it helped me become one of the all-time leading three point shooters in the history of the university of Oregon. And I look at that and I say, well, that is the culmination of what help looks like. And when help is full [00:33:00] grown, it blossoms. And so the right help creates a harvest and a blossom of things that are beautiful.
[00:33:07] And so when Don Emery gave me that piece of advice, I'm not sure he knew what I could become or what I would become, but it certainly didn't stop him from providing that help. And so I like to think of the same way. I don't know who the next kid is going to be, that I'm serving on a board that impacts education for you.
[00:33:26] I don't know how that's going to impact each individual kid, but I know it's going to help. I don't know who the next person is, who doesn't have a home. And, and all of a sudden gets a shelter and can take a shower and provide a roof over their head for their family, what that's going to mean for those future generations.
[00:33:41]And the job that a person gets and their career that they develop. [00:33:45] I don't know how that's going to impact them, but I do know it's going to help. And ultimately down the line, maybe somebody will look back on me like I look back on Don Emery and say it was that moment, that five minutes of coaching and that five minutes of support that led to a lifetime of success.
[00:34:01] That hopefully that will manifest itself for someone else.
[00:34:04] Greg Bell: [00:34:04] Oh man, I got goosebumps. Woo. That's beautiful. I love that because well, first of all, I know coach Emery. I know Don Emery. One of the things that's interesting about that is, you know, walking around, trying to help people. That's how I see you.
[00:34:20]You think about it, like, why are, why are we walking around on earth? To help each other out a little bit. Like, that's about it. A lot of times, though, people are chasing the credit or whatever [00:34:30] it might be, but it's interesting the way you described that, that's super helpful for our listeners to think about even just ask that question.
[00:34:36] Who are you helping in a moment, like five minute moment. A lot of times people don't even know that they're doing it. I mean, I imagine, you know, coach Emery probably just doing it all the time.
[00:34:45] One of the things that I I'm really curious about cause you know, it's kind of along with the intentional piece, one of the core principles of being a Bamboo Farmer, and you've talked about this this way and that way is self-discipline. Coach Emery told you how to shoot or whatever, but give me a break, you had to put in the discipline to put in the work and the practice and the study. I think Malcolm Gladwell talks about the 10,000 hours and that kind of thing. How do you help people with that concept? Because, for me. I just think [00:35:15] if you tell somebody you got to put 10,000 hours to be there, they're going to go, Whoa, that's a lot of time, but I just, I kind of trick them and say, Hey, why don't you just Water the Bamboo?
[00:35:24] But with the idea of that discipline piece, I want you to talk a little bit about how can people develop better self discipline?
[00:35:33]Orlando Williams: [00:35:33] Yeah, first of all, thank you for calling me a Bamboo Farmer cause after, knowing your authorship and the principles of that, what that means.
[00:35:41] That means a lot to me. Mastery, I think in getting to the place where you have the self-discipline comes with a couple of principles. And I think one of the principles is accountability. And then from accountability there's measurement , or you could swap those two. So if I can stick with the theme of being a great shooter, it [00:36:00] was one thing for me to decide that I wanted to be a great shooter.
[00:36:03] It was another thing to have what I like to have today. And what I call today is my accountability partner or my truth teller. I think everyone should have a truth teller in their life. Someone who no matter what is willing to tell you the truth. Now, usually this is a person who is wise. This is the person who has some experience, and they were able to share with you, your blind spots, things that you aren't necessarily recognizing. A truth teller can take you a long way because they'll identify things in you that you may verbalize, but don't actually take action on.
[00:36:35] They will tell you the truth. The other aspect of that is measurement. Being able to measure the outcomes of the accountability that you say that you want. And so I didn't [00:36:45] become a great shooter until I began to measure. So it was one thing as I would say, is that my friends would say, well, I'm going to go shoot 200 shots, or I'd say, I'm going to go shoot 500 or a thousand, but shooting a thousand shots wasn't necessarily the goal.
[00:36:58] It wasn't until I took pen and paper with me and measured how many I made out of a thousand that I actually realized that I was being disciplined because when I measured it, it meant that one day, if I made 700, that means that the next day I had to make at least 701, so that accountability of self discipline, it actually comes externally and internally you have to have an external influence that is able to motivate you and hold you accountable for what you say you want.
[00:37:28] And then you have to have the internal [00:37:30] motivation to actually go and do it. Those two things coupled together, I think lead to the types of outcomes that people desire.
[00:37:36] Greg Bell: [00:37:36] Wow. I love that idea, you call it an accountability partner. I call it a watering partner. That's super helpful because I think one of the challenges though, is this idea of feedback.
[00:37:45]You know, that is important. Like a lot of times the things we talk about in leadership, it's hard to see the feedback. Like it's hard to sort of measure that, but I, I liked the idea of sort of at least attempting to that's super important.
[00:38:00]You've had a lot of success. I mean, now I see your your Blazer announcer. You're doing all this. You're amazing. I just love you. But what, what piece of advice, would you give your younger self that you really wish somebody had given you? [00:38:15]
[00:38:15] Orlando Williams: [00:38:15] Wow. Wow. That's such a profound question.
[00:38:17] And, and with that, With the profoundness of that question. There's so many things that just kind of flood into my mind about what I know now versus what I knew then. And I think that's really where the question kind of culminates is. Are there things that I know now that I wish I would've known earlier?
[00:38:35]The advice that I would give to my younger self and it's the same advice that I'd probably give to young men and women either in their beginning of their careers or, or even younger. And that would be to read more. And expand your world. If you can't travel and you don't have all of these wonderful mentors or individuals of circle of influence that you can touch and talk to, then I would say read, and I would tell [00:39:00] young Orlando to get hungry and have a thirst for knowledge when it comes to reading and expanding my world. I was confined as a young man to just a few city blocks like a lot of young people are, I didn't have the budget for travel. My family wasn't going to travel. Certainly weren't going to travel internationally. But understanding now what I know about reading and acquiring knowledge and being a lifelong learner is that your world can broaden and expand so vastly just by being an avid reader and consumer of information and knowledge in your book. Just taking the knowledge that you have is that it's a blessing that I get to know you as a person, but it's even more so that I get to dive into the [00:39:45] insight of your thoughts and your inspirations and your passions by reading your book.
[00:39:50] And I that's the information. That's the advice that I would give.
[00:39:53] Greg Bell: [00:39:53] Yeah, that that is that is super solid because I always am reading. Like, I, I don't, I don't remember a time not reading. One of the things my grandfather told me when I was young, he said that in America, If you don't get an education it's because you don't want one.
[00:40:10] Yeah. He said there's libraries everywhere. People are like, it's, you don't learn because you don't want to learn. And he just thought that three things, he said three things would get us out of poverty. He said, education, education, education. I think he was absolutely right. Even today I think [00:40:30] about that.
[00:40:31] One of the things that's interesting about reading as you sort of know, is just think about, well, pick any author you want. And and that person has worked pretty hard in their life and they put a lot of really good content together and you could get it for 15 bucks.
[00:40:47] Orlando Williams: [00:40:47] That's right.
[00:40:50] Greg Bell: [00:40:50] Cheap way to advance something. I really appreciate that.
[00:40:53] I'm going to ask you my hardest question and that is what questions should I be asking you that I haven't asked you yet?
[00:41:00] Orlando Williams: [00:41:00] That, that is a difficult question. So, when I think about the world that we live in now and I think about what the future looks like and what the future holds for individuals.
[00:41:11] And so the question that I always tend to think about [00:41:15] is where am I going to be five or 10 years from now? And are the circumstances of today going to influence that in a negative or a positive way? And so I'm in employment. And I work with helping people find careers. And one of the pieces of advice that I give individuals that are looking to advance and to grow is, is one simple word and that is start because no matter what happens in five years, 10 years are going to be five years older and 10 years older, no matter what, but if there's something you want to accomplish, then start. And so the question that I, I would say that you wouldn't ask me is, you know, what are the things [00:42:00] that people should be doing in a COVID society to prepare them for a post COVID society?
[00:42:05]And that is to start today what you want to happen after COVID is over. Don't wait and don't feel don't feel confined. And restricted and in bondage as a result of what is happening in the world, but take this opportunity to start and you can fill in the blank after that word.
[00:42:25] Greg Bell: [00:42:25] Wow. That is brilliant.
[00:42:27] That is so, so good because I think that a lot of things in my life that I've just sort of started like I helped start the coaches versus cancer program. You know, the result of that was it's raised over a hundred million dollars for cancer research. The start was really messy though.
[00:42:43] I just had an [00:42:45] idea and a sheet of paper and, you know, got some people in a room and they're looking at me like, what are you talking about? But I think it's interesting about starting those starting takes, that's you know, back to the word momentum. I love the word momentum because, and you can't talk about momentum without inertia.
[00:43:00]You got to have energy to start something energy, to start a business. So let's just say, I take your advice. You say start, right. And you know, you're a successful entrepreneur, right. And you know, you already, you've already made it, you know, I'm sitting back and saying, that's easy for him to say, so I'm in COVID you're telling me to start, I'm listening to this.
[00:43:22] How do I do that? Orlando? All the businesses are closed and this is really hard and, you know, whole list of excuses, where do I [00:43:30] get the energy? Where do I get the insight, help me with that?
[00:43:33] Orlando Williams: [00:43:33] Yeah. You know, that's such a great point because I think there was a lot of people that are feeling that way.
[00:43:38]In fact, there are organizations right now that are closing their doors. And I think when you think about the hospitality industry and the restaurants that are struggling or have struggled. It wasn't until we got through maybe the midway point that restaurants figured out there is a method that they could deploy that would allow them to continue to earn revenue.
[00:43:59] And I think it's interesting because why wouldn't restaurants already have that disposition before a catastrophic event happens. Sometimes in life we look at situations and it's not until something very traumatic happens or some tragedy [00:44:15] occurs that we realize that we're stronger than we ever could have imagined that we were.
[00:44:19] And that we're more brilliant than we ever imagined that we could be. And all I'm saying is starting recognizes and flies in the face of doubt and doubt and fear are the two things that keep people from starting. So my encouragement, where do you find that is by knowing that you're more brilliant, that you're more courageous, that you're stronger than you could ever imagined that you are, or that you would be, and don't necessarily have to wait for tragedy to happen for you to recognize that. Start and know the, one of the, one of the catalysts of starting and understanding that starting can alleviate, just knock fear out of the box and, and not [00:45:00] self doubt out of the box is that starting doesn't have to be perfect.
[00:45:04] Once you realize that it doesn't need to be perfect. That you can actually just start. You talked about coaches for cancer. Didn't start pretty, but look at how beautiful it is. And I can tell you that Motus, we didn't start pretty. We started. And so finding that, that inspiration to know that you're more powerful, you're stronger than you can imagine. And you're more brilliant than you could ever imagine that you would be.
[00:45:28] Greg Bell: [00:45:28] Wow. Well, I got all fired up goosebumps again. Thank you for that. Good man. One of the things that's interesting about this idea of starting, one of the chapters in the book, I callit's Messy in the Garden. Like all starts are going to be a little messy.
[00:45:41] And I think that one of the things that happens to people [00:45:45] is they think it's gotta be perfect. Like. So, so you get sort of caught up in, it's gotta be a perfect situation for me to get going. And I always think about some of the greatest businesses, the greatest art ever is never seen because that person never starts.
[00:46:01] I mean, you're, you're absolutely right on that. I love that that concept. One, one thought I just, I just want to open it up to you a little bit. How do we get ahold of you and how do we learn about what you do and all that?
[00:46:12] You gotta have any sort of things you want to say about that.
[00:46:15] Orlando Williams: [00:46:15] Well, yeah. Yeah. So I'm one of those individuals that tries to remain open for conversation or correspondence. My email is orlando@motusrecruiting.com. My Twitter is @oduck21. So I [00:46:30] try to make sure that I'm available for conversations.
[00:46:32] People can find me on LinkedIn. And, and career advice or entrepreneurship or engagement, you name it? I try to stay open and I think that's part of the reason why some of the success has happened is because you have conversations with wonderful people like yourself, Greg, and in those conversations, you build relationships and out of those relationships come ideas and out of those ideas come beautiful outcomes.
[00:46:56] So, yeah, email, twitter, LinkedIn, you name it. I remain available.
[00:47:02] Greg Bell: [00:47:02] Oh, that, that is that's awesome. I really appreciate that. Letting people know that you're available. What's a one parting word. Would you give to Bamboo Nation? Like just sort of one parting word or more than one [00:47:15] parting word? What's your parting word as we close out here?
[00:47:18] Orlando Williams: [00:47:18] Yeah, my parting word would be courageous. Be courageous at this time. Don't let fear stifle. You don't let doubt slow you down. Be courageous.
[00:47:30] Greg Bell: [00:47:30] Oh, I love that. You are a courageous Bamboo Farmer. Okay. Have my Water the Bamboo on. So you're going to have to do the Water the Bamboo oath. Okay.
[00:47:39] Orlando Williams: [00:47:39] All right. I'm ready.
[00:47:40] Greg Bell: [00:47:40] Raise your right hand. No matter what challenges come my way.
[00:47:45] Orlando Williams: [00:47:45] No matter what challenges come my way.
[00:47:47] Greg Bell: [00:47:47] I will,
[00:47:48] Orlando Williams: [00:47:48] I will
[00:47:49] Greg Bell: [00:47:49] Continue to Water the Bamboo,
[00:47:51] Orlando Williams: [00:47:51] Continue to Water the Bamboo.
[00:47:54] Greg Bell: [00:47:54] Oh man. You are a blessing, man. Thank you.
[00:47:56] Thank you so much for [00:48:00] tuning in today's episode of the Water the Bamboo podcast. I hope you enjoyed my discussion with Orlando Williams, as much as I did. I love his advice about getting started, even if it's messy. if you enjoyed this podcast, make sure you subscribe on Apple podcasts or your favorite podcast app.
[00:48:18] And please leave a rating and a review. I'm Greg Bell. Keep watering.