What does it take to become an Olympic gold medalist? According to Shannon Boxx, a three-time gold medalist with the United States Women’s Soccer Team, it takes focus, hard work, and perseverance in challenging times.
In this episode, you’ll hear how Shannon Boxx went from a good soccer player to great, and how she learned to focus on one thing at a time in order to achieve her goals. During her professional career, Boxx also was dealing with an autoimmune disease called Lupus, and she’ll share how she has overcome that diagnosis and is still battling it.
Don’t miss this incredible conversation with Shannon Boxx.
Episode Highlights:
01:57 - Going from good to great and making the US Women’s National Soccer Team
03:28 - Self-doubt and feeling insecure at the highest level
05:47 - Who supported Boxx along the way
08:24 - Boxx’s resilience
10:23 - Advice Boxx would give others about resilience
13:43 - Accomplishments most proud of
18:24 - Shannon asks Greg for some advice
22:36 - What’s Going Well for Shannon
26:50 - Advice Boxx would give to her younger self
30:00 - Finding a way to chill out and reduce stress
32:57 - Boxx’s Lupus diagnosis
36:15 - How Lupus affected Boxx day to day while playing
42:34 - Dealing with perfectionism
Guest at a Glance
Shannon Boxx is an American retired soccer player and former member of the United States women's national soccer team, playing the defensive midfielder position. She last played club soccer for the Chicago Red Stars in the American National Women's Soccer League. She won gold medals with the United States at the 2004 Athens Olympics, 2008 Beijing Olympics, and 2012 London Olympics. She has also finished third place or better with the US at the 2003, 2007, 2011 and 2015 FIFA Women's World Cups. She was a finalist for the 2005 FIFA World Player of the Year award, and won an NCAA Women's Soccer Championship with Notre Dame in 1995. Shannon Boxx announced her retirement from international and club soccer after winning the 2015 FIFA Women's World Cup. She played her last game on October 21, 2015 when the USWNT tied with Brazil as part of their victory tour.
Boxx was diagnosed with lupus in 2007 when she was 30 years old, and went public with her diagnosis shortly before the 2012 London Olympics at which she won gold with the United States team.
Notable Quotes
“All of a sudden I was so mentally and physically focused on what I wanted that I just did it. And I went through all the steps that I needed to do.”
“I felt like when I look at this idea of Water the Bamboo, like, it didn't just come to me when I said, Oh, I want to make the national team and make the national team the next year. It was years. I mean, I was 26 years old when I made the national team. You have 18 and 19-year-olds making that team. And so for me, I definitely kept watering that and saying, okay, let's get better and let's get better and let's get better.”
On self-doubt: “Any confidence I had in myself was completely gone. And I definitely questioned, I'm like, am I really as good as I think I am?”
“By doing one thing, every single day, I started to gain this confidence and that confidence led to more confidence in other parts of my game.”
“It's hard to find a woman to look up to as an athlete. I looked up to Michael Jordan. I couldn't become him, but my sister became that person that I could become her.”
On overcoming injuries and illness: “I had a goal and I knew exactly who I was and what I wanted and, and I loved what I did and so it didn't feel like work. It felt joyful. And I enjoy doing it.”
“Control what you can control.”
“Those moments were so hard, but I'm so happy I went through them because I wouldn't be here if I didn't go through those, and it wouldn't have made me a stronger person.”
Greg on why focusing on What’s Going Well is important: “The news is negative because they want your attention. There's this battle for attention. And so if you think about What's Going Well for you in your own three feet, you'll find so many things going well that you don't have time to consume the negativity.”
“When you are in the dark of something, it is so hard to get yourself to move forward.”
“And that's what you do as sports. Your goals are always a little bit out of reach and you're always reaching for them and pushing and pursuing it.”
Transcript
Greg Bell: [00:00:00] This is the Water the Bamboo Podcast. I'm Greg Bell.
[00:00:18] When you focus on one thing at a time, it can help you achieve your Bamboo Goals and overcome your challenges. Our next guest will share just that.
[00:00:28] Today's guest is a former US women's national soccer standout, and three time Olympic gold medalist Shannon Boxx.
[00:00:37] In this episode, you will hear how Shannon overcame illness, focused on her craft, and achieved her goals at the highest level.
[00:00:45] I am so excited to introduce you to Bamboo Nation, Shannon. Welcome to the podcast.
[00:00:51] My first question is what, what does it mean to you and in your career and how you've taken off in terms of three Olympic gold medals, US soccer team, and playing professionally?
[00:01:02] What does that concept mean to you?
[00:01:05] Shannon Box: [00:01:05] I mean, yeah. And I obviously looked into your book a little bit before having the interview and I mean, right away, I was like, that's me. That is a hundred percent me. And you know, when I look at my career and the journey that I took, to become successful and to make it to the elite level, I wasn't the standout player when I was growing up. I mean, I was good, but I wasn't that player that got all the recognition in high school, I wasn't the one that got all the recognition in college, and then even after. And so, you know, I just knew my goal was to play on the national team. And when, you know, it started to not happen, I think I started to question my ability, I questioned if I was a good soccer player, but yet I still had that dream and I still wanted to do it, and it just became like all of a sudden I was so mentally and physically focused on what I wanted that I just did it. And I went through all the steps that I needed to do.
[00:01:57] I knew I had to figure out what I wasn't good at. And I had to work harder at that. I had to get my mental piece right back to where I wanted it to be, which was, I believed in myself, I have confidence in myself, I know who I am and I know what I want. And, then it just became working hard. And that's what I did.
[00:02:14] I felt like when I look at this Water the Bamboo, like, it didn't just come to me when I said, Oh, I want to make the national team. And I made the national team the next year. It was years. I mean, I was 26 years old when I made the national team. You have 18 and 19 year olds making that team. And so for me, I definitely kept watering that and saying, okay, let's get better and let's get better and let's get better, and finally, all of a sudden it went from my lowest of lows. And in a year, I went to my highest of highs of almost quitting the sport to making the national team without ever putting on a US jersey before and playing in my first World Cup and starting, not just sitting the bench, but starting every single game.
[00:02:54] And I mean, it's just crazy. Like, so it just did, like you said, it grew so fast, once it finally peaked out and it was like, that's exactly what happened to me. It was like the minute that I got on the team or the minute I started working extra hard at like that goal. All of a sudden, I just sprouted and I was on the team for 12 years.
[00:03:10] Greg Bell: [00:03:10] That's amazing. Cause you've, you went on three Olympic teams, right? Three gold medals, which is like extraordinary. But what's interesting for me though, is sort of having that feeling of like you're--I like how you described that, you have this dream, you believe in yourself, you're going to keep working. And then that doubt starts to creep in, and then suddenly you're on the team and starting. Tell us a little bit about that journey, because that's an interesting thing too, because when you have the doubt, and suddenly you get there, what you were been working for, did that make you a little wobbly or what, how did you feel during that time?
[00:03:47] Shannon Box: [00:03:47] It made me wobbly at first. Like I think, because pretty much what happened was I was playing in the first women's professional league that was here in the United States. For a year and a half I'd been a starter, I'd been playing every minute, I was a top player, but I wasn't a national team player. And we had national team players on our team. And so I wasn't the best, but I was definitely a consistent player. I was needed for the team. And then we had a coaching change and the coach didn't like the way that I played and sat me for the rest of the year. So I went from a high to an absolute low. I'd never had been in a situation where I was sitting the bench, not being a starter in those situations.
[00:04:19] And I did, I went through that whole year and then at the end of the year, he traded me. So it was like, any confidence I had in myself was completely gone. And I definitely questioned, I'm like, am I really as good as I think I am? And the thing that I took, was it actually took support. It took support from somebody else who really truly saw the the best in me and was like, why are you not on the national team? And I was like, well, I think one major reason is my fitness. He's like, well, I can help with that. And it gave me something to focus on and it wasn't like, there's all these things that I need to work on, it was one main focus. And by doing one thing, every single day, I started to gain this confidence and that confidence led to more confidence in other parts of my game.
[00:05:08] And then I went to a new team. I was having fun. I mean, that's it too, you know, you have to enjoy what you're doing in your life and it makes things so easy. Right. It makes things feel easy.
[00:05:22] Greg Bell: [00:05:22] I love that idea of sort of having this idea of, somebody helping you along the way. Because, when I talk about giant timber bamboo, like in the Bamboo Grove behind me, what people don't see are the roots of that bamboo. Like it's really an important thing. Each stock will go over 100 yards. So thinking about the deep roots and that connection is important for people to have confidence in you.
[00:05:47] Take us back a bit though, before you made the national team before you became a professional who was in your Bamboo Circle, like who were the people that sort of supported you as you got along and, and what kind of help did you receive as you sort of think about that journey who was in your life at that time?
[00:06:05] Shannon Box: [00:06:05] It's a real easy answer for me, just because I think that, you know, my mother was a single parent. I have an older sister who's four years older than me, and we became really close and it was more of like my sister and I fought as sisters do, but there was a respect that we had. Even growing up, we were super competitive with each other, which my mother never understood why, because we were four years apart. But we just had this competition between each other. It became a joke of like, who's the best daughter is by the most accolades they've had. And I know it's kind of weird, but like, it, pushed us to want to pursue something great that our mother was proud of us for. And I think that started there and it just really pushed me.
[00:06:46] And, you know, my sister was such a great challenger. I respected everything she did. She actually played in the Olympics in softball in 1996. So a great role model for me where, you know, back then, it's hard to find a woman to look up to as an athlete. I looked up to Michael Jordan. I couldn't become him, but my sister became that person that I could become her.
[00:07:06] And, that was a huge help and they were my kind of roots for sure. And then you just start to get other people, you know, a special coach comes in and they're there at the right time. And sometimes it could be the right person, just the wrong time for you. So it's finding those connections and sometimes it's finding them at the right moment in your life where you are mentally, physically, everything. And then you can just soar.
[00:07:31] Greg Bell: [00:07:31] One of the things I really like to attack is this myth of a singular genius, or you got to do it by yourself. And, I've talked to so many successful people, like yourself, who have, you know, a family member, a coach, someone that sort of helped get them going again or get them going at all.
[00:07:51]it's just an important message. I love that, so think about your sister that you have a sister, that's four years older than you. And is an Olympian, that is like, okay...
[00:08:01] Shannon Box: [00:08:01] but I'm about to, I'm like, geez. And then I, then I beat her. So I got three. So
[00:08:10] Greg Bell: [00:08:10] You are indeed the favorite daughter, right?
[00:08:12]I think that's such good thing, but when I think about you and I looked in your background and really sort of looked at that, heard a lot of interviews that you've done and just, I just sort of so admire you so much. And one of the words that comes up for me, when I think about you is resilience. I mean, the resilience of a Bamboo Farmer, not just three gold medals, but the idea that you would, in soccer, it seems like that's hard because it's every four years. Like with swimming. Okay, one year you win four gold medals, but to keep the longevity. but I just think, I, I really do. I think that that word fits for you. I mean, I imagine there's other things that do, but I want you to talk about resilience, if you will.
[00:08:54] Shannon Box: [00:08:54] I would say that's dead on. I think if I had to talk about myself and the values that I have, and I think resilience would be my number one. I mean, you know, I look back at even my early childhood and it's like, yeah, I came from a single parent, I'm I'm biracial, you know, there was injuries and illnesses and different things.
[00:09:14] And for some reason I never just let those things come into my mind to say, That Oh, I'm allowed to not do well because of these things. Like these things actually pushed me to want to do better. And, you know, so I, I think that's a lot of that, but, you know, I did, my journey had so many, I mean, I had four knee injuries, four knee surgeries. I had a hip surgery. I obviously I have lupus, which, you know, most of the people listening probably don't know that either, but found that out, before I made the national team. So I went through my entire career knowing I had lupus. but yeah, I just think for me, it was, I had a goal and I knew exactly who I was and what I wanted and, and I loved what I did and so it didn't feel like work. It felt joyful. And I enjoy doing it.
[00:10:09] Greg Bell: [00:10:09] Pick apart this a little bit. I mean, knee surgeries, not, you know, the doubt you had about not making the team and will I be on it? You have this dream, it's not happening. The coach is not into your game. You got lupus. My God, like on and on and on. We're in COVID now, right? A lot of people could learn from your journey. What would you tell people right now that are feeling like, well, You know, I've tried all these things and my career isn't going well. I lost my job, whatever it is. I mean, of anyone to learn from about being a Bamboo Farmer. It's you right?
[00:10:44] Shannon Box: [00:10:44] I'm still learning, too, though. I mean COVID is this a whole new realm? I'm a mom to two kids. I'm still learning every single day. And the best times are when I can reach back in and say, what did I do as an athlete? Because I was so successful, what did I do? How do I have that same mindset and apply it to everything else in my life? The resilience, the never say die attitude.
[00:11:07]But I think the big thing that became my motto was control what you can control. And that really helped me when I was down on my coach. Didn't like me, I can't control if a boss is going to like who I am or what I do or whatever, but I can control how I act and how I respond. And my choice was to respond in a positive way.
[00:11:31] So in those training sessions, I would work so much harder because I wanted the starting team to be that much better. I put everything I had into every training. And yes, did I go home and cry my eyes out? A hundred percent I did. But while I was there, I was not going to let him make me somebody that I wasn't.
[00:11:50] And that's what I'm always proud of in those moments that year, I'm the most proud of how I handled myself and kept that mentality of who I was, and I didn't let somebody else or whatever, make me change who I was. So that was important. And then, you know, controlling what you control. I can control how hard I worked. I can control, you know, my teammates that I was a good teammate. My whole year career, I think that's one thing that people would come back to and say she was a really good teammate, you know, and those were important to me. So control what you can control. Right now with COVID, you can only go one day at a time, right?
[00:12:29] You can't control how long this is going to take, how long it's going to go until it ends. You can control your mentality, you can control your attitude and just work, you know? And, and I think that's the only thing I can really say about COVID, cause I'm still struggling too, every day, of like, when is this going to end and instead of looking so far, let's just take one day at a time, you know, let's, let's make sure my daughter's good with the virtual learning today and let's, you know, stuff like that.
[00:12:55] Greg Bell: [00:12:55] That is really such a great message, Shannon, that's super helpful. One of the things I did, right when, I think it took me a week or two to realize COVID is real, you know, like where this is happening. I got out a sheet of paper, and honestly, on the left side of that sheet of paper: things I can't control. On the right side I put down things that I can, and I just wrote down, you know, there's so many things that we can't control, right? And then I wrote down all the things I could, like you were talking about your attitude and being a good teammate, being a good father and all these things. I wrote all these things down and, I noticed that I just spend this time on the right side of that ledger it helped me have better days. You know, I can control this element. I can do this. And I think that message to the audience is just, coming from you, is super, super helpful.
[00:13:43] You've had a long career and you continue to have a career. So I would just be curious though, to date, what is it that you would say you're most proud of? In your whole career, what would that be?
[00:13:58] Shannon Box: [00:13:58] So career, not life?
[00:14:00] Greg Bell: [00:14:00] I, you can do both. I like, I want to give you some flexibility here. I don't want to limit you.
[00:14:06] Shannon Box: [00:14:06] Man, you know, I'm sure everybody was like, Oh, those gold medals. And I played in four world cups, I mean, those are proud moments. Standing on the podium, singing the national Anthem.
[00:14:16] But every time I sit on the National Anthem, I actually wasn't thinking about that moment. I was thinking about the journey that it took to get there and how hard it really was and how proud I was that I could get to this stage. And, it made you just really reflect and be like, man, those moments were so hard, but I'm so happy I went through them because I wouldn't be here if I didn't go through those, you know, and it wouldn't have made me a stronger person. So I would say every time it was always that journey leading up to that. I think one moment we talked about multiple times is that transition period. It could have been so different if I had given up and said, okay, well I'm done playing soccer, I don't want to move to New York or the new team that traded for me was. Wow, like I could have gone, you know, 2003, the league, when I went to New York, that was 2003, the league almost folded and, or it did fold actually, I apologize. It folded, but in the beginning of that year, I was like, you know what, we're not getting paid enough money. I'm just going to go back home and go back to school. And I did, I got into Pepperdine in 2003 to go back to school for psychology, and all of a sudden I made the team and I had to defer and I was like, you know, but I had gotten so close to saying, you know what, I'm done playing.
[00:15:34] Like, I've been doing this too long and I'm not really making much money. What am I going to do next? Went through all those things, but I chose to continue. And like, man, I looked back. So those transition moments are probably what I'm most proud of that I stayed strong and I kind of continued on my path of what my goal really was.
[00:15:54] Greg Bell: [00:15:54] Absolutely. I mean, that's so fits with Watering the Bamboo. For me, I think a lot of people get excited about the bamboo growing, you know, the results; but, in true Bamboo Farmer form you named the watering cause the watering and the process is really what it's about, that journey, in our lives is like how you handle adversity? How do you handle winning? How do you handle losing? How do you get through those things? I really appreciate that, because for me, I was just, I get goosebumps when you talk about standing on a podium. I'm going, you know, the closest I came to the Olympics was I had a college roommate who was a number one US pole vaulter.
[00:16:32] He was actually in Seoul, Korea, and he got fourth. I mean, like almost got a bronze, you know, the, it was like, Oh, and I got to touch his uniform, but just to be on the podium.
[00:16:43] Shannon Box: [00:16:43] Yeah. And that's the thing, you know, you're around all these amazing athletes. Like we, unfortunately weren't in the village a lot of the time. Because soccer, you know, you needed so many soccer fields, so you're all over the country that you're playing in. So China. And London and England and all these different places. But when you did finally get to go in the village at the very end, if you made the semis to the finals, you got to go and stay in the village and be around all these amazing athletes, and how proud so many of them were just even being in the Olympics because how many people actually get to be in the Olympics, not even win a medal, just be in the Olympics. And it was such a good thing because as an American team, it was we, you know, we have the hardship of the pressure of like, we need to win, you know, not just be there, but win.
[00:17:30] And so you held that pressure and you were like, Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. And then when you started to see all these athletes there, you were like, relax. Like this is a great accomplishment. And like, we are going to go to win this whole thing, but, also be proud of that we individually got here and as a team got here, and I think that puts such a better perspective and just to enjoy the whole thing and it made it so much more worthwhile being there. You weren't just quickly being like, I just want to hurry up and get to the final to know what happens. You're actually enjoying the moment of each game and the whole experience.
[00:18:04] Greg Bell: [00:18:04] Oh, that's a really good shift because oftentimes I know, even in my, you know, I can't, well, when I get done with my book or my podcast, or I'll be happy when I get there, you know, that drive people have, what I hear you saying is sometimes you got to sort of slow down a little bit, enjoy being there. That's really a powerful message.
[00:18:24] Shannon Box: [00:18:24] Yeah. And I would say right now, it's actually, one question I had for you at the end was like, How do you do that? Like right now I'm finding myself like, Oh, when this ends, Oh, when this finally ends and I'm like, Whoa, okay. So, but I'm also getting great quality time with my kids and how can I just look at that and be happy with that?
[00:18:42] Greg Bell: [00:18:42] That's a hard question you want to ask, go ahead,
[00:18:47] Shannon Box: [00:18:47] Because it is, it was one of them I'm slowing down and not looking so far in the advanced and just enjoy the moment like your kids grow up too fast and life goes too fast and then you're old and you can't do the things that you can do now. And it's so hard not to let your brain go there.
[00:19:04] Greg Bell: [00:19:04] Exactly. So I'll just, let me address that right now.
[00:19:07] So the hardest, the hard question you're having right now is a lot of people listening will have this question, you know, when will this be over? And then, you know that and how do I enjoy the moment? One of the biggest challenges in my view with the human brain is we can think about the past, the present, and the future. Like that, think about that, like in one moment we can go to the past, present, and future, and that's super problematic if you go too far in the past and working and thinking about some negative thought, right. That can actually depress you. If you go too far in the future, it can cause anxiety. So I always think about that. Like fear, fear lives in the future. Like, people say, well, I have a fear of flying and I say, no, you don't, you have a fear of crashing.
[00:19:51] Shannon Box: [00:19:51] Yes, that's true
[00:19:53] Greg Bell: [00:19:53] Because flying is what you want to do, but the mind is wicked that way, it can make you think about something in the future. That's, you know, negative in a more of a negative way. Like, I don't know what's going to happen and the boogeyman is in the closet and all these things.
[00:20:05] And I think that what I talk about is you can feel this in sport. You can, you have to be present. I mean, you played midfield. You have to be present and know what's going on. Right. If you're like wandering around and looking in the stands and you know, you're going to get scored on, something's going to happen.
[00:20:26] So in sport, a lot of times that is actually the one place you can be way, way more present than any other time in your life. I played college basketball and for sure that was an important thing. I mean, like you're, if you aren't paying attention, you're going to get screened and scored on and probably on the bench, right? So in our just normal day, everyday living life, one of the things that I like to think about is, my second book, which is What's Going Well? I have people focus on What's Going Well? And the reason I do is like you focus on What's Going Well in the morning. What can happen is it actually gets you in the present.
[00:21:00] Like even that simple, this morning, I think my What's Going Well is good night's sleep. Just simple, stuff like that. Oh, I get to have my morning tea, just really looking for simple things going well in my life. It gets my day going and I'm more present with what I'm dealing with. One of the What's Going Well is, Oh, I get to talk to Shannon today.
[00:21:20] That's going to be incredible. Like I'm just so looking forward to that, write it down. And then at the end of the night, I write down in my What's Going Well journal. I write down what went well. What went well during the day? And what's interesting about knowing that I have that assignment tonight. Is all day long, I'm like searching and looking for something going well, like all and not big.
[00:21:40] I'm looking for really, really small things going well. It could be a simple text from my daughter. It could be any little thing that I, you know, it's my own personal journal, no one reads it. And then, so what happens to me is I actually, it starts my day right. And it ends it right. So I have better dreams and better days, plus I'm really on the lookout for things going well.
[00:22:04] I think there's 15 billion bits of information in one moment. Our brains at its highest capacity can only handle 12 to 15. Like you think about that. Whatever we're focused on is not the world, whatever you're focused on is not the world. There's so much other stuff. If you focus on the negative things and things, aren't going well, that's gonna be your world, but you can actually peer into other things that are going well.
[00:22:29] I can even surf on things that are going well for other people. For instance, What's Going Well for you right now. How's that?
[00:22:36] Shannon Box: [00:22:36] What's Going Well for me right now is I get to speak with you. That my daughter is, you know, enjoying her day. I think, you know, when she is well, I'm well, so those are always moments where I'm like, she's playing with a friend, great. Good moments right now.
[00:22:52] Greg Bell: [00:22:52] So it feels good when you even express that, doesn't it? And it also shows what you care about. Asking and thinking about what you're going through. It's really, it really shows what you value. And that's an important thing to sort of keep yourself present with that, because there's so many flirts and distractions that a lot of the news will show you things that you really aren't really that important to you in the end.
[00:23:14] But if you get into those rabbit holes, you will go into the negative. The news is negative because they want your attention. There's this battle for attention. And so if you think about What's Going Well for you in your own three feet, you'll find so many things going well that you don't have time to consume the negativity.
[00:23:33] They're, they're just, they're all around you. They're all around you and they're through your friends. And when you say your daughter's doing well, do you know what I get to do? I get the surf on that? I go, awww, she's doing great. Like I get to enjoy your daughter doing well. It's this thing I would say, use that concept to help yourself stay more present.
[00:23:56] I think that would be really helpful. That that's how I would answer that question.
[00:24:00] Shannon Box: [00:24:00] No, and I like it because, you know, and I go back to being an athlete. It's like you it's, so you're focusing on one thing, right? Like, and then you do, you come out into the real world and you're like, wait, no, but I have kids and I have a husband and I have job. And I have, you know, things that you gotta do around the house. There seems to be so much more, your brain starts to just go everywhere. And so to have a present focus is a lot harder than going into the zone is what I like to call it. Like with soccer, it was like I got into the zone because I was right there and you have to be, you're not gonna be a good player if you're looking in the future of the past.
[00:24:34] So yeah it just seems so much easier there. Right. But, but definitely moments of, like I said, in the Olympics, you're just wanting to know the result. I want to know that we won, like, but, or did it, you know, so, but no, I'm going to definitely start doing the morning and the evening journal that is perfect.
[00:24:54] Greg Bell: [00:24:54] And apply that the same thing. Like just, just ask the question about What's Going Well with my husband. Like apply that there. What's Going Well with my kids, apply it there. What's Going Well with my health. What's going, you know, and apply it into the, in the areas that you are concerned about.
[00:25:09] Like, you know what I mean? Like in terms of, you know, What's Going Well in my community, What's Going Well with my work and just apply that question to every single thing that's important to you. Not to everyone else, but to you. And, that that'll be, that'll be super helpful and, have conversations about it with your kids.
[00:25:26] What's Going Well? Because a lot of times they come to you, what's not going well. Right.
[00:25:30] Shannon Box: [00:25:30] True. It's a great exercise for them at the dinner table, you know?
[00:25:33] Greg Bell: [00:25:33] Yeah. Just sit around and talk about it because there are a lot of things going well. And if we, it doesn't mean you don't deal with the problems though I'm not saying that at all, but it gives you energy to deal with the things that are there. I hope that's helpful to you.
[00:25:46] Shannon Box: [00:25:46] Very helpful. Thank you.
[00:25:47] Greg Bell: [00:25:47] Yeah, you bet. You bet. Thanks for that question. I'm glad you were on it, man. That's good.
[00:25:55] Advertisment: [00:25:55] And now for a quick break with a message from Greg's team. Let's work together on a customized virtual event. Greg's keynotes are now available in a virtual format. And Greg and his team are ready to get to work on your next virtual event. With updated stories, humor, a charismatic style, audience interaction, and unique elements based on his two popular books: What's Going Well? The Question That Changes Everything and Water the Bamboo: Unleashing the Potential of Teams and Individuals. Greg's virtual keynote sessions are highly engaging and guaranteed to be much more than just a traditional keynote talk delivered online. Greg Bell and his team will partner with you to bring in unique and engaging customized virtual experience for your organization.
[00:26:41] To learn more about Greg's virtual keynotes, visit Gregbellspeaks.com to learn more.
[00:26:48] Now, back to the show,
[00:26:50] Greg Bell: [00:26:50] One of the questions I had for you though, is all the knowledge you have now, all the things you've been through, I mean, the Olympics and being a professional athlete, being a mom, being a wife, I mean, all these things, you know, I really just admire your leadership and your resilience and all that.
[00:27:08] What piece of advice would you give your younger self? You know, based on what you know now, all your experiences, what piece of advice would you give your younger self?
[00:27:17] Shannon Box: [00:27:17] I think there's two main ones that I think I would do. I think one is not to stress so much. The amount of worry and stress I gave myself, put me into some situations kind of like we just talked about those negative thoughts and put me into so many situations that I was then digging myself out, and so working so much harder to get to that point, or to the point that, you know, the place I got to. So I would say that. I still have to actually tell myself that today, to relax a bit, take a deep breath not let myself get so worked up. So I think that was there in sports as well.
[00:27:53] I think the other thing is, is, you know, sports ends and especially for women who, you know, if I was a man in play for 12 years in the national team in professional sports, I might've made a lot more money than I did. And so, you know, I definitely had that major transition period. I think men and women both have it going from sport to something else, but, you know, figuring that out, you know, you're so focused on your craft, which is so great, and that's what made me successful, but I wish there were definitely moments.
[00:28:23] There were down times where I could have maybe looked more into what do I want to do next? Or start to feed that part of myself because my whole identity was being an athlete. But it kinda would have been nice to say, Hey, you know what, maybe start to figure out also what else you love and start to massage that a little bit and get it better so that when you do end, and you're already on that path of what's next and not to give away to being so focused, but to maybe have just some of that, because it is such a hard transition for so many athletes to transition out. They feel like their only identity is an athlete, but really know, like you just played sports that wasn't your identity and, you know, to kind of figure out that. So I think my younger self, and not as a kid, but like in my twenties and thirties of like, I wish I could have done that a little bit better.
[00:29:18] Greg Bell: [00:29:18] Yeah. That's an interesting thought that, particularly the last one, I think that's interesting. How do you transition from sport to that. But the first thing you mentioned though about worry and negativity and sort of, get yourself in situations where you got to dig yourself out. That happens a lot with a lot of people. I think that's why I did write the second book What's Going Well? Is because I noticed that most, most of our thoughts are negative actually.
[00:29:43] it's just this natural thing. The rustling in the bushes, you know, in our neighborhood is a deer or a bunny, right. And, but my brain doesn't know that it thinks this is a saber tooth tiger, you know, jumping from bunnies, you know, it's like, so the idea that, you know, that, and I love that idea of sort of, how do, how do I relax a little bit?
[00:30:01] Have you sort of figured out a method for doing that to chill?
[00:30:04] Shannon Box: [00:30:04] Still working on it! I'm still working on it. I do know that, you know, I think that's why I love the, the first example that you gave me of the journal. I think, I'm still working on that piece a lot, but you know, I think the first thing is to acknowledge that you have it and that, that you tend to do that because then you can stop it a lot quicker.
[00:30:24] And so I think that's, what's starting to happen is I'm recognizing I really do this and it really hurts me rather than helps me. And so I'm starting to like, notice it quicker. And then being like, give myself a time out. Like, I literally tell my kids, I need a timeout because I'm about to explode. So I'm slowly learning that I do need to give myself, you know, a little bit of, you know, in, in one thing, it will be another question at the end, but I am a perfectionist . And it treated me really well in my sport.
[00:31:01] Greg Bell: [00:31:01] Right. You really kind of went for it and, took care of things. But, but it's interesting though. So let's, let's dig into this awareness piece because I mean, you raised this sort of in a casual way. Well, now I'm aware of it and whatever, but the first step to change is awareness.
[00:31:17] And in fact awareness wouldn't be necessary if things didn't change. Right. We wouldn't even need that skill. But I imagine sort of even like talking about and athlete, Oh, I'm aware that this is something I need to work on or, in soccer, I imagine you would say, well, I need, I think you, your coach told you, well, I need to get my fitness.
[00:31:35] Okay, great. Let's go to work on it. And it's interesting just sort of, as you sort of recognize it in yourself, like, well, if I'm aware of it, And I can address it quicker, I can get to that. I think that's a really an important thing, because it sort of meets that the first rule of holes, you know, what the first rule of holes is? When you find yourself in one stop digging
[00:32:00] Shannon Box: [00:32:00] So simple, right. But
[00:32:02] Greg Bell: [00:32:02] you still went into this hole, I got to stop digging.
[00:32:05] Shannon Box: [00:32:05] But it is it's, you know, and I hear you saying that and I'm like, I start, it makes me start to think of so many other things in my life of like, you know, when you are in the dark of something, it is so hard to get yourself to move forward. I mean, you know, I know we haven't talked much about my lupus diagnosis and I would love to, but when I went through years of not knowing what was wrong with me, and it is one of the worst in debilitating places to be. And it was like, once my diagnosis came out, I was almost happy. Like, and people can be like, wait, what? And I'm like, I'm happy, I finally have something I know I can fight. It's physical. It's there. I know I can fight it. And now I can move forward and work to feel better, to get rid of it, whatever it takes, right. But when you don't know, you're literally just stuck.
[00:32:57] Greg Bell: [00:32:57] Right. Hey, walk us through this a little bit. So when, when was your lupus diagnosis, and then where were you in your career when that happened? Talk us through that a little bit.
[00:33:07] Shannon Box: [00:33:07] Yeah. So I started with, an auto-immune disease called Sjogren's syndrome, which, you know, auto-immune means obviously your body attacks itself.
[00:33:14] And so I was playing in 2002. So the first league, the second year before this new coach came and I started feeling so much fatigue, like I thought I had mono because I could barely make it up my stairs. I could, I could barely get through training sessions and they found out pretty quickly I had Sjogren's with tests and stuff like that. And I was like, okay, what does that mean? They're like, Oh, dry mouth dry...they made it sound like it wasn't a big deal, which it is. Sjogren's people pass away from all the time. Now I know that, you know, but it took them years. That was 2002. I wasn't diagnosed with Lupus till 2008.
[00:33:51] Greg Bell: [00:33:51] Oh my word.
[00:33:52] Shannon Box: [00:33:52] And so I was already struggling with all of these things and I made the national team in 2003. So I knew I'd already been starting to deal with an illness, an autoimmune disease. And then as I made the national team, it was like more and more things were starting to happen to me.
[00:34:08] And I was going to more and more doctors, but I was always changing cities. So it was always having to find a new doctor in my stack of paper was like this big on any notes I've ever taken with every doctor, I went to them like, Okay, this is what I've already been through. Don't do it again,
[00:34:20] Greg Bell: [00:34:20] Like folders and folders of...
[00:34:22] Shannon Box: [00:34:22] Yeah, tests and notes and different things and the amount of misdiagnosis I had. And, and so it, it just was so disheartening and all the while I was still playing, you know, getting through training sessions and keeping it to myself because I feared like, it's a disease of flares. And so it comes and goes.
[00:34:44] And how can you tell a coach of an elite team that I'm not really sure when I'm going to have a flare, which means I can't get out of bed. I can't do anything. And he could have happend on the worst of days, which would be the Olympic finals. Right. I couldn't tell anybody. And so again, talking about roots, the people that knew were the ones closest to me: my mom, my sister, my family, and they were the ones that kept building me up and supporting me through that process.
[00:35:12] Once I finally told my team in 2011 and 2012, they're the ones that then pushed me to play till 2015, because at that point, my body was really starting to hurt and, and not do so well, but they continued to support me and push me to play it that many more years.
[00:35:30] Greg Bell: [00:35:30] That's unreal. I mean, there's so many questions I have with that. So in 2011, you've been dealing with Lupus for, nine years already?
[00:35:38] Shannon Box: [00:35:38] Yeah. Well, 2008 was when I was diagnosed. So, but I think I've had it for that whole time because a lot of times, Lupus and Sjogren's go together. So the fact is that I had Sjogren's, so I think they were like, you've had this, we just didn't know what it was.
[00:35:54] Greg Bell: [00:35:54] Got it. I see. So what's crazy about this story is, I mean, you have to be the only person with three gold medals and lupus, like at the same, like, like isn't that like. Probably Guinness book needs to do some kind of special record for you. But I was thinking about this idea though, like you have this close circle that understands what's going on with you.
[00:36:15] You got to keep it to yourself, just for people listening, how does Lupus affect your body? Like, I mean, you're, you're, you're not just an athlete, you are an elite athlete. How does that impact you your day to day?
[00:36:29] Shannon Box: [00:36:29] Lupus can affect every individual very differently. And that's what makes it so hard to diagnose.
[00:36:33] It could take an average to six to seven years to be diagnosed. And so for lupus patients, it could be different. It can be internal, so it can affect your internal organs, it can affect your skin and your joints in your body. So for me, I have Systematic Lupus Erythematosus (SLE) pretty much. It affects my skin. I have makeup on, but usually I have a rash that is a telltale sign of having Lupus.
[00:36:55] It's called the butterfly rash that goes there at all times, for me. And, I also have extreme fatigue. So there are definitely days when I'm in a flare that it's hard to even get out of bed. Joint pain can be terrible. I, during COVID, I've gone through some, some hard times. And so just, you know, I was an elite athlete and it's hard to walk up and down our Forest Heights Hills, you know, and, I'm in pain most of the time when I'm doing it, so those are kind of the things.
[00:37:23] I mean, I had definitely hard times during my training time when I was playing of cutting my own steak or cutting my own meat, so there were definitely, those were kind of the bigger symptoms, muscle aches and muscle pain, were a lot of the bigger things that I experienced.
[00:37:38] Greg Bell: [00:37:38] Yeah. For the average person sort of dealing with those that's enough, but then you got to play a sport where your opponents don't care what you got, they're trying to score. Like that's, I guess the resilience word lands well here.
[00:37:54] Shannon Box: [00:37:54] And you know, like I said, I take medicine. I started to have to take medicine in 2010 to kind of help control some of those flares and not make them last as long. But every, every patient is different. You have people that are on the high spectrum of, you know, every day they're feeling and people are passing away from this disease. And then you have people that have the mild, I would say probably right in the middle. I'm luckily haven't had anything to do with my organs, so, I'm happy with that at this point.
[00:38:22] Greg Bell: [00:38:22] Yeah, you've got to look at What's Going Well. One of the things that though I did note that you are, you got involved with doing some speaking with the Lupus Foundation and doing some things like that. Do you want to talk a little bit about that? If you would, that'd be good.
[00:38:34] Shannon Box: [00:38:34] Yeah. Thank you for even asking, you know, I've become an advocate and I definitely do some speaking engagements for the Lupus Foundation of America. It, you know, for me, it's just, when I first was diagnosed, I didn't even know what it was. I was like, what's this like, and then when I started to talk about it, more and more people were like, I have never heard of this before.
[00:38:52] So, for us and the foundation it's we needed to get awareness out. Yes, we need the research, we need the money. So we do need to do all those things. And to be honest, this year has been mind-blowing for how well the research piece has gone. So we can talk about that, but, you know, for me, just to get the awareness, the education, get people to go to a doctor sooner and not wait till, you know, things are hurting too much, and then not being able to recover that, So getting people out there before six or seven years of, of getting told that this is what you have, because again, that six to seven years over that period of time is so debilitating to you because you don't know what's going on with you and you go to so many doctors and they're like, Oh, you're fine. And you're like, no, I'm not. I know who I am. I know that I don't feel good. And so for me, it became really important to be an advocate. I wanted to use my platform, being an athlete, to get the word out of what it was and what people could do to help support those that have Lupus. And, I've continued that as I've retired and we just actually had a virtual walk this year, because of COVID. It was last Saturday and it was national and it turned out great. Raised so much money. There's still time to raise money for another month for it. And, Yeah, that's pretty much what I've been doing, for the foundation.
[00:40:11] Greg Bell: [00:40:11] That is terrific. Thank you. for the work you do, and just raising that awareness alone, getting people to get checked out and doing that. And, it's interesting, when you think about like even what you do as a leader, I mean you're impacting people you don't even know. That's one of the things I always find fascinating when someone like yourself uses their platform in the way you've done it. I just, just want to say kudos to you and, helping that foundation the way you have.
[00:40:38] How do people get a hold of that foundation? Can you let us know?
[00:40:42] Shannon Box: [00:40:42] Yeah, you can go to just Lupus.org and there's so much information on there and then you can reach out every, usually there's a lot of chapters. So we have a Northwest chapter, that's Seattle and Portland, and you know, there's always things going on. There's walks. There's a new thing that they did this year called the virtual six challenge where it was six miles over six days. And so the number six is because that's typically how long it takes to get diagnosed with Lupus. And so that became a great virtual thing. I mean, people were walking, running, hiking, paddle boarding.
[00:41:15] I mean, people were doing different things and sometimes it was a mile over six days, or it was six miles each day. And so it went really well. And so they are going to plan on doing another one next year. Donating if you can. Like I said, the research this year has been amazing. When I first started, with a lot it still to this day, I'm the medication I'm taking is not specifically for Lupus it's for another disease that helps with the symptoms of Lupus. And so, you know, we finally ended up couple of years ago getting a drug that was specifically for people with Lupus. And then now there's all these other drugs that are kind of going through getting through the different phases and going to the FDA.
[00:41:57] So this has been a really big year and, and it, it's exciting to know that there are granted, we want to find a cure, you know, that's number one, but in the meantime, can we help prolong people's lives and make them able to enjoy those lives. I mean, I talk about when I speak to a lot of other people with the foundation is my background, it's I want to be able to run around with my kids, still play sports with my kids. And they're definitely days that I, she, my daughter wants to run with me and I'm like, I'm so sorry. Like, I don't feel very good today. Those are reasons alone why I'll continue to talk for Lupus and support it.
[00:42:34] Greg Bell: [00:42:34] One question I have though, is what question should I ask you that I haven't asked you yet? Like what, what did I miss?
[00:42:46] Shannon Box: [00:42:46] Okay, let's see. I think it kind of goes back to that perfectionism piece that I talked about how I wrote it down. So I'm actually looking, okay.
[00:42:56] Greg Bell: [00:42:56] This is the hard question you're gonna ask me?
[00:42:58] Shannon Box: [00:42:58] This is my hard question.
[00:43:00] Greg Bell: [00:43:00] Hard question for Greg. Okay. Like it.
[00:43:02] Shannon Box: [00:43:02] That, you know, probably deals with me. Yeah. I would say. How would you recommend that someone deals with a personality trait that led them to be successful in one aspect of their life, but now they've changed maybe it's career or whatever, and that same trait has a negative impact?
[00:43:21] Greg Bell: [00:43:21] You know, if you let's just play around with perfectionism itself, right. So one of the challenges with, perfectionism. I always found is there's no, no, one's perfect. Well, except my wife that's about it. Like there's no one's perfect, every once in a while, I always think about that, you know, you pull back the curtain and you know, it's like the Wizard of Oz, you know, it's like a, person's just trying to figure it out. Like, don't look behind the curtain. You know, they got imposter syndrome. People have, it happens a lot because I think one of the things that is really true...
[00:43:58]My grandfather gave me this quote. He said it was from Plato. He said, be kind, for everyone you meet is in a great battle.
[00:44:06] Like everybody, you meet. Isn't a great battle. I don't care who they are. They're walking around living is a battle, like really it is. It's, you know, your battle might be lupus. My battle might be mental health. Someone else's battle may be physical. I mean, everyone's got battles, right, with their spouses or their kids. And so we're all having these like private battles, right? One of the things that happens though, we have this sort of storybook idea about how people are living. I mean, we're, we're, we're, you know, we're raised on that, like storybook ending in storybook ending in all things, and so we have this sort of image of perfection that sort of presented before us. I mean, even your story of sort of not making the Olympic team until you're 26, right. It's like, Oh, you know, it doesn't, but wait a minute. I mean, that strikes me as odd. Like, why didn't it happen sooner? Like what, you know, so we have this notion that things are smooth and perfect. And I think that fiction causes a lot of anxiety and problems. So what I would say about the one way to deal with perfectionism, the way I deal with it every day I pursue excellence and excellence for me is I'm just giving my best, right. And sure, sometimes my best isn't good enough. Sometimes my best isn't making the Olympic team. Sometimes my best isn't being able to go running with my daughter. Sometimes my best isn't all that. But I have to ask myself, did I give it my best? And if I say yes to that, I can go to bed. And I think. That, just that, that bit is super, super important, that part of it.
[00:45:41] The other part is important in terms of this is also is relying on your relationships. And I think it's such an important thing to think about that because we are all not walking around to win gold medals. That's not why we're around. Of course you have three of them. I'd like to see them someday.
[00:45:58] Shannon Box: [00:45:58] I can go back to doing that again.
[00:46:01] Greg Bell: [00:46:01] Yeah. It's like, that's not why we're here. That's just not why humans are around. And we're not around to be perfect. We're actually around to help each other out a little bit, lift each other's spirit a little bit. And if I can do that during my day, help, my clients help an individual help a neighbor help total stranger, I have great days. That's really what I think about that a lot. Just because as I said, that quote, my grandfather or the thing he told me, he says everybody, he said, everybody leaves a wake. We all have an impact on each other. Like we, we have impact. What we say, how we do, whether we smile or not, has an impact on somebody right next to you.
[00:46:47] It's funny to me, I saw you at the park with your daughter and you guys are doing the math or whatever. And I pretended I couldn't count or whatever. You know, one, two, three, whatever. And she, that was like a 15 second exchange. Maybe, right. But what did it cost me? Nothing. Did she laugh? Yes.
[00:47:06] Walk away. It's good enough. And for me, I think that if people had that, just a little bit of that, like turn your pain or your challenge and figure out how to help other people. Just like you've done with Lupus. I have Lupus, this is really challenging. Speaking about it is challenging, dealing with it is challenging. What do you do? You turn that challenge you have and figure out how to help other people. That's why we're walking around. That for me is perfection. That's it.
[00:47:41] Shannon Box: [00:47:41] And I love that because I think, you know, when I do talk to my husband about it, like he was, he was like, no, you, you are realistic in your perfectionism with sports. Like you, you went after the things you could control, so you can control being better with fitness. Okay. So you control this, you and your perfectionism it was good for you there because you were going to try to get as perfect as you could with it. You wouldn't hit perfect, but you're going to try, right.
[00:48:05] And that's what you do as sports. Your goals are always a little bit out of reach and you're always reaching for them and pushing and pursuing it. Right. So I would agree with that. And where in my normal day life, like I'm trying to do things of what I don't have control of. I don't have control. Like I'm going to be the perfect mother or the, or this or that.
[00:48:24] And so where you're saying is. Find the control that you can control and do well there, you know, and help someone there. And so that's really good.
[00:48:33] Greg Bell: [00:48:33] I know when I walk into a room or walk on a trail or walk in to talk to my wife or I walk in to talk to my kid, if I, if I walk in there with ego, it's not going to come out very well.
[00:48:48] It's just going to be transactional. But if I walk in there in service and help. It is going to be magical. It's just the way it is. Nothing's changed if you think about it, like, you know, COVID is a situation, right? It's just a situation. How we approach that situation makes all the difference.
[00:49:11] Okay. Where are the opportunities here? Like to even asking that question. Oh, education, it's really hard for my kid. You know, we kind of do that thing. Okay. Where are the opportunities here? Like where are they? And if we ask that question and What's Going Well, along with it, we'll see them. Humans are amazing. I mean, we talk about change is hard. No change is hard for goose. A goose has to go South in the winter and has got to go North. It's got to go North, in the summer. Humans we can go East, West, anywhere we want. In this moment, our brains could go anywhere we want. And I think we need to take control of that.
[00:49:50] When your daughter was born, your son too, the thought that anyone are in that room or in that space, you know what thought they had? This is a miracle,
[00:50:02] Shannon Box: [00:50:02] Right.
[00:50:03] Greg Bell: [00:50:03] Everybody is a miracle. It is like you think about that. So if you're a miracle, this is back to your perfection things, if you truly are a miracle, when you were born, that's what they said, miracle.
[00:50:14] Oh my God, Shannon's here. And if they didn't say it, they should have. And then what we do is interesting enough is we actually start chasing miracles. I think about that a miracle chasing a miracle. Have you ever seen a dog chase his tail? You know, what's crazy about that? It already has it.
[00:50:36] Shannon Box: [00:50:36] It's a great point.
[00:50:37] Greg Bell: [00:50:37] So you don't need to chase, you don't need to chase anything. You don't need to chase perfectionism. You don't, you don't need to chase that. You already are perfect. I think it's, you're the most perfect Shannon Boxx that ever lived.
[00:50:53] Shannon Box: [00:50:53] Right.
[00:50:53] Greg Bell: [00:50:53] Before after, during I'm the most perfect Greg Bell that ever, I mean the only one. Right. And so if you think about that, the science is fascinating on this, they say it's one in 400 trillion to be who you are in this time and space. One in 400 trillion. Think about that. That's like one in infinity. So I think sometimes we look like perfectionist is out there or miracles are out there, but they're right.
[00:51:22] You're you're you are one you to be a human is unreal. And I think if we thought that way and treated each other that way, we could solve the challenge with Lupus. We could solve COVID, we could solve all kinds of problems. If you viewed people like they were miracles and viewed yourself like that, we could solve all kinds of issues and problems. And we have before though. I mean, people have done miraculous things and they continue to do. So I'm very optimistic about that.
[00:51:52] So I just appreciate your time though. This is crazy. Thank you for spending time with me. We're going to have to do the Water the Bamboo oath though.
[00:52:00] And you're gonna have to repeat after me. Raise your right hand. I have my Water the Bamboo band on, so raise your right hand.
[00:52:08] Okay. No matter what challenges come my way.
[00:52:11] Shannon Box: [00:52:11] No matter what challenges come my way.
[00:52:13] Greg Bell: [00:52:13] I will.
[00:52:14] Shannon Box: [00:52:14] I will.
[00:52:15] Greg Bell: [00:52:15] Continue to Water the Bamboo.
[00:52:17] Shannon Box: [00:52:17] Continue to Water the Bamboo.
[00:52:19] Greg Bell: [00:52:19] Oh, thank you.
[00:52:21] Shannon Box: [00:52:21] Thank you. My pleasure. Thank you for having me on.
[00:52:27] Greg Bell: [00:52:27] Wow. Shannon's story is incredible. She overcame a very serious illness and still battling every single day. Yet she remains positive and focused on her goals, and is helping a lot of people. She's an incredible person and an outstanding Bamboo Farmer. I hope you enjoyed Shannon's story today.
[00:52:46] Make sure you join and subscribe to the Water the Bamboo podcast. So you can hear from some of the best and brightest individuals and how they are Watering the Bamboo. We'll see you next time on the Water the Bamboo Podcast. I'm Greg Bell. Keep watering.