For years, Kevin Carroll has inspired people with his masterful storytelling and encouragement on the dynamics of play at work. And in this episode, you’ll hear from Kevin about why positivity, hard work, and a dose of play in the workplace are the recipe for success in all walks of life.
Episode Highlights:
06:15 - Kevin’s Bamboo Story
15:51 - Being too good for Certain Work
18:15 - Imposter Syndrome
21:10 - Best moments of Kevin’s career
25:02 - Advice for Kevin’s younger self
28:32 - Advice for people going through challenges
31:47 - Routines of successful people
34:08 - The concept of play in business
37:27 - How Kevin is practicing what he preaches during the Pandemic
42:58 - Advice to Bamboo Nation
Guest at a Glance
Kevin is an author + instigator of inspiration + creative catalyst. Kevin brings a playful curiosity, a keen understanding of human nature and a lifelong love of competition to all of his endeavors. Kevin is the author of four highly successful books published by ESPN, Disney Press, McGraw-Hill and A Kids Book About. Kevin has helped turn creative ideas into reality for organizations such as Nike, Starbucks, adidas, Walt Disney, Target, Proctor & Gamble, Columbia Sportswear, Mattel, the National Basketball Association and many others. Kevin was named by SUCCESS magazine as one of 19 “SEERS – changing the world!” Kevin believes that play is serious business!
Kevin Carroll engages an audience with his masterful story-telling skills to entertain, enlighten, and challenge business leaders and worldwide audiences. Using lessons garnered from the spirit and dynamics of play, Kevin helps them understand how to enliven and enrich their work lives, enhance innovation, and improve team dynamics and interpersonal communication.
Learn more about Kevin at https://kckatalyst.com/
Notable Quotes
“How you do the little things is how you do all things.”
“Hard work never goes unrewarded.”
“Everybody doesn't have to like you and you don't have to be for everybody and it's okay.”
“Pay attention to your intention.”
“You're going to have these times where you glitch, where you have a little hiccup where things aren't quite right. Do you let that derail you or do you hang in there and try to find a way?”
Transcript
Greg Bell: [00:00:00] I know you call yourself the catalyst, right? Like, okay, Kevin Carroll the catalyst or whatever and I kinda get that, but the way I experienced you, when I think I'm trying to like, narrow you down to a word, which is ridiculous, right? You've written all these books and you're just amazing person, but on a personal level.
[00:00:17]I will like honestly, I was actually nervous to invite you onto the podcast and my nervousness. I was like, why am I so, nervous about it? I mean, he's busy, he's got all these things to do and whatever, and then when I realized what it was it wasn't nervous it was actually excited because every time I touch base with you, no matter where it is walking on the streets, I saw you in LA airport, I think I was doing a project with Disney and you were doing something and I saw you, and the way I felt the way I felt when I left you, and I think a lot of people do this, is I felt so encouraged.
[00:00:45] I mean, I feel like you're the encourager, right? Like, that's that would be the term I would give. And it, and I just want you to start the podcast with that thought. you've encouraged so many people you've done, you spoken to tons of TEDx events or Ted events and spoken to, I don't know, thousands of companies and millions of people and done that kind of work.
[00:01:07] Where does that come from in you to be an encourager? Where does that come from?
[00:01:12] Kevin Carroll: [00:01:12] So it's easy. That's an easy, and this is always when I do my presentations me and Ms. Lane.
[00:01:19] Greg Bell: [00:01:19] Yeah. You call her Ms. Lane, right?
[00:01:22] Kevin Carroll: [00:01:22] Yeah. Yeah. And MIZ, Ms. Lane. Yeah, she's always been Ms. Lane. She was my best friend's mom.
[00:01:28] And I also call her my CEO, my chief encouragement officer of my dreams. Ms. Lane passed away six years ago, 83 ish. I think so. But for 46 years we had a relationship. She met me when I was nine. I've had a key to their house since I was 10. So Ms. Lane was that person who encouraged me. So I'm modeling her.
[00:01:53] I always say I'm the 2.0 version of Ms. Lane. So I just got technology and greater reach and impact that way, but I'm just carrying on her legacy. And I told her, I would do that. I said, I'm going to be the next you, Ms. Lane. And she said, well, why not? That was her response. And so I've just taken that to heart and I think.
[00:02:10]Because the way she encouraged me and it wasn't just gassing me up and you can be, you can do anything. It was more well, I'm going to check to see what you do with that idea. Don't talk about it be about it. There's lots of talkers and very few doers. Which one are you going to be? And so I realized from her accountability and action, where the two things that people need, right?
[00:02:35] Somebody needs to hold you accountable and then you need to take action. All right. So that's how I learned to manifest what's her. She encouraged me. And then that just opened doors to other people encouraging me. But she's the one and only CEO, in my life that way, the chief encouragement officer she's that., And I tell people everybody's got a Ms. Lane in their life. Everybody does, everyone has someone who wants nothing but the best for you. Right. They want that. And they want to encourage you and they want to challenge you. And then it's on you.
[00:03:06] Greg Bell: [00:03:06] Right. Can you talk a little bit about this idea, that sort of encouragement. So when I am with you, even now, what I notice is you're here. Like, you're not like thinking about the next thing you're going to do, which is probably, whatever you're gonna have to do projects or whatever, or before, like, I feel that you're really present. What I do know about you is there's this, I think you were told to be still as a kid. Yeah.
[00:03:32] Can you talk about that a bit?
[00:03:34] Kevin Carroll: [00:03:34] Yeah, I have what they like they like to say was what is that kinetic energy. Right. So I, I really do enjoy movement, movements always been my mojo from when I was a child, but even more. So, what I started to understand is this, my energy is my social currency right. That's the way I show up. Right. And I want my energy to be approachable the best way for it to be approachable is: I need to have be present. My grandfather would say, be where your feet are. Be present, show up, let people know that you're there, like, and I'm really present for you. And of course, Bamboo Farmer, you know how this works, it takes a lot of energy to be present. It's not easy to be present because we have lots of things that distracted us even more. So it takes energy. And so I'm very aware of my energy. I'm very aware of how it allows me to show up and allows me to be that encourager that I need to be for others. And most importantly, how I can model for people.
[00:04:36] I think that's the other piece of it too. So I look at it as kinetic energy. I understand that it's my social currency, I'm replenishing, recovering all the time and thinking about that, I'm really mindful of my energy. And I'm in the basement of a building by choice, right, because that's the way I protect my energy.
[00:04:57] Right. So I don't need to be public all the time. Right. I need to come in here and bunker and replenish so that I can go forth, whether it's virtually or physically to do the work I need to do.
[00:05:08] Greg Bell: [00:05:08] That, that is really cool. Cause I, I just know I've experienced that you liked that and I've been in the bunker and see you doing your work
[00:05:15] Kevin Carroll: [00:05:15] You've been in the bunker. It's a rarity
[00:05:21] Greg Bell: [00:05:21] I've been in there. I understand where the creativity comes from. But let me take you back a little bit though, because I first heard of you. I think it was like 2000, 2001. It was incredible story about the man who builds bridges. That's when I knew you were on the planet and heard about you.
[00:05:41] And it was very interesting sort of just being inspired by your story. And I think you have one of the best bamboo stories there is, right. Just taking, even go back further to, when you're six years old and your brothers are, you're getting adopted and all that, just all that.
[00:05:56] Can you take us through your bamboo story? Just a bit? You don't have to go in all the detail, but I just want to get that experience. Cause I think. You know where you are right now. I mean, you're 90 feet in 60 days. I mean, you're like the real deal, right. As far as I'm concerned, but I mean, it didn't start that way, so maybe that's through your story.
[00:06:15] Kevin Carroll: [00:06:15] So I appreciate you putting it in that I'm a bamboo story. I love that. I love that I qualify to get that that Greg Bell seal of approval. I do appreciate that. So, my childhood was just filled with upheaval and uncertainty, addiction and abandonment, and just my parents were both addicts and made decisions that would affect three little boys.
[00:06:38] My grandparents came to our rescue, literally, and took us in after we had to ride back to their home on a bus. My older brother was eight. I was six. My little brother was three by ourselves. The bus driver basically watched over us to get us back to Philadelphia. And my grandparents did the best they could, but they were older.
[00:06:56] And so one of the things that I realized really quickly as I was going to have to make a decision, a choice, am I going to be a victim or will I be a fighter? And I didn't have those words, but it was a mindset. And hearing people say to my grandparents, don't expect much he's social workers would come and check on us.
[00:07:14] Don't expect much look what they come from. And that's where I got my attitude. I'll show you. I'll show you. And I think that. Your last guest actually brought that up, JJ, right? He said, I'll show you. I remember listening to his his episode a little bit before we talked today and I'm like, dang dude, that's me and you, when you like, we like to diminutive dynamos right.
[00:07:37] The two of us. Right. So I, that was my attitude. I'll show you just get out of my way. Haters are my motivators. Let's go. And so that. Situation. I was not going to allow it to dictate my destiny. I was not going to allow those circumstances to be my story. And I fought through that and Ms. Lane comes in, sports comes in, my love of learning and school and books. And you put all that together. And I end up having the success that no one would have ever thought was going to happen. And all three of us did fine my older, brother's retired Navy, my younger brothers, and works in IT, but my journey is very different than my brother's, very different.
[00:08:17] And I know it was those ingredients, a ball, book, and a community of betterment, people wanting to help me out and encourage me.
[00:08:24] Greg Bell: [00:08:24] Yeah, but I mean, that's interesting. So I, I, that's what we have that in common too. I mean, I was sort of dropped off at my grandparents and have this sort of legacy or thought with my grandfather sort of that support, like you're a leader and all those things, but it's interesting that you take.
[00:08:40] Like statistically, you and I shouldn't be on this call. Like really, it should not be happening, but I think there's something about like this idea of not being a victim. Right now, we're in COVID right. There are a lot of people having victim language. Right. So help us with that. Like, what's your strategy?
[00:09:01] To go from, like take the challenges and the setbacks and how do you go from, that, that idea of like, feeling like a victim to really be an accountable and responsible and sort of moving forward, help us with that.
[00:09:11] Kevin Carroll: [00:09:11] Double down on optimism, man. A double-down on optimisms during this pandemic and I've always been optimistic.
[00:09:18] I just have always been a believer that things are going to work out. I just have been that kid. And then, you know that young man, and then this man I've just always believed that. And many times what I've discovered is it works out in a way you never anticipated, which is even more like, phenomenal and surprising.
[00:09:38] And so that's the thing, learning to get out the way we get in the way of our possibility. So often with our worry, our anxiety or anxiety, all those things that don't necessarily need to be brought to this moment. . And it doesn't require that. And I think what ends up happening and listen, I know there's been a lot of, just worry and concern and all these things, but as soon as everything started unfolding, Greg, the first thing I said was, well, I'm not going to let my family see me fall and crumble, like a house of cards.
[00:10:12] No, right. Not going to do that. So now I'm going to find a way. I'm going to find a way I'm doubling down on optimism. I'm doubling down on positivity. And that's what I did from that jump dude, like right away, I leaned right into,
[00:10:27] Greg Bell: [00:10:27] I love this idea of doubling down on optimism, but I also know the story about you, the boss, or you were at the park and you think you're going to be in the league.
[00:10:36] And I love this. This is one of my favorite stories about you, because I think. Who hasn't had that dream. Like I'm going to be in the NBA and you're bouncing your ball, but what comes out right away are naysayers. Right? Tell us that story. I love that.
[00:10:52] Kevin Carroll: [00:10:52] Those haters. Right? So being at the park, let's see, I've maybe been like nine, 10, 11 years old, we're playing basketball. And I scream out. I won't be in the NBA one day and everybody like there is no way never going to be in the NBA. Looking at you, you vertically challenged you to short blah, blah, blah. Like you watch. Right. I name a couple of short players from back in the day.
[00:11:12] Right? Tiny Archibald, Calvin Murphy. They're like never going to happen. Fast forward. I make it to the league, but in a unusual, unexpected way. With my intellect and my love of sports. I become the third black trainer in the history of the NBA for my hometown team, the Philadelphia 76rs or is that I always like to point out, guess who was calling me for tickets, Greg Bell, when folks that were haters were calling me for tickets.
[00:11:38] Yo Cam, can you hook us up with some tickets? Remember that thing you said back in the day, we ain't really mean it. Yeah, you did no tickets for you.
[00:11:48] Greg Bell: [00:11:48] I like that though. I mean, that sort of speaks to your, I show you attitude, right?
[00:11:52] Kevin Carroll: [00:11:52] Yes. You and also expect and respect the unexpected, expect and respect the unexpected.
[00:12:02] Look what I look at the way that it actually manifests it. I would have never, I didn't even know there was jobs like that or roles like that with teams back then. Right. And then I ended up. Getting my degree in athletic training, sports medicine, come on, man, can't make that stuff up. That's like, yeah.
[00:12:20]Greg Bell: [00:12:20] Unreal. But I also know that Avery Johnson story though. I think that is a really remarkable one, because once you were an athletic trainer, once you start getting going in that you kind of went up a few rungs too. But there was something you did, a menial task, I remember that, that story, but tell the audience about that one, because I, this is an important conversation, Kevin, because a lot of people are like, especially young folks are like, I don't want to do that small thing or I'm too good for that.
[00:12:49] And that talk about that. Would you?
[00:12:51] Kevin Carroll: [00:12:51] I think a big part of when you look at those, what you would deem are menial, right. My grandfather would say how you do the little things is how you do all things. And so I learned that very early. There's nothing that small, because they all are building blocks to something greater.
[00:13:10] And so I'm working at St. Joe's university in Philly. I wasn't at the Sixers yet. Anytime there was a storm and this is so funny, my son still remembers this story, how I used to have to go to the trading room. If there was a really bad thunderstorm, on the East coast, they get crazy torrential, downpours and thunderstorms.
[00:13:29] And so there was a thunderstorm it's like 10 o'clock at night and I'm like, Oh, I got to go to the training room it may flood, because what would happen is the gutters would fill up, the water would back up and it would have to find a place to bubble up through, and it came up through our drains in our training room.
[00:13:46] And if you didn't take care of that, it would basically just get everything wet in there, ruin boxes of tape and everything, and so I would drive down there whatever time of night that I knew that it potentially could happen and sweep up ahead of time and get the water under control. And so it happened to be around 10-ish at night.
[00:14:03] And I go to the training room. I rushed in there. I don't notice that there's a team working out in the gym. Because that's where the Sixers practice. So NBA teams will come and do their walkthroughs or workouts in there in the eve all times of night. I'm cleaning up in the training room, the door's open and someone walks in and they said, Hey, can I get an ice bag?
[00:14:21] I'm like, yeah sure. Just let me get this cleaned up. And I turned around and it's Avery Johnson. And he seen me do this. He knows what time of night it is. There's no one else in there. I'm getting the bag together for him. And I hand it to him and he says, hard work never goes unrewarded. And I remember just looking at him and I said yeah, well, I, this drain is backed up I got to, clean..he says, yeah, but hard work never goes on rewarded. And a year later I run into him cause now with the Sixers in the tunnel, San Antonio at their arena, and he sees me and he looks at me and he kind of recognizes me, but that's it. And I respond to him. I say, hard work, never goes unrewarded.
[00:14:57] And he just smiled and walked away. He remembered.
[00:15:01] Greg Bell: [00:15:01] I love that. I love that. So for me, I always tell people that a lot of people want the result. Right. We want to do these things, but it's really about the watering really, about doing the work, right? Yeah.
[00:15:13] Kevin Carroll: [00:15:13] And people are afraid of that, man. I mean, ain't no dream is microwaveable.
[00:15:18]It ain't going to happen overnight and you gotta trust and believe your hard work never goes unrewarded. You got to just keep putting that work in. And like I said, it may manifest in unexpected ways.
[00:15:30] Greg Bell: [00:15:30] Always does. Right. I love, I've never had that experience where it didn't. It's like, Whoa, where did that come from?
[00:15:35] Another thing I think about when I think about Kevin Carroll is you execute, like. There's a lot of people that talk about stuff, but can you kind of give us a little insight to your process of execution? I mean, you go from it, it's so weird to me. People, I run into people all the time.
[00:15:51] Hey, Kevin Caroll, and I try to describe you or whatever you mean, the guy that has the ball. No, the books, the art create, I mean, who are you? Right. But there's something about you sort of, deep down, I know you are a storyteller, right? But you also, there's so many other things, but you actually have a great process for execution.
[00:16:09] I mean, you really get things out in the world and really show up for the companies that you work with and the people you work with. But, give us a little insight to your style of execution.
[00:16:21] Kevin Carroll: [00:16:21] I think a big part of the way I like to collaborate, especially creatively is I like to rally others around an idea and let them shine also and bring their gifts and talents to bear. So it's basically forming a team, right? So from sports, I learned that, and then obviously working at the highest level within the sports industry, not just in the NBA or NFL, but also working at Nike, you started to see what high performing teams look like.
[00:16:47]So I started understanding the kinds of teams I wanted to put together around my creative endeavors. And so I would curate over time, people that I trust people who got me and my energy and the way I went about things, but also that I didn't have to tell them what to do. They were artists and masters at their craft also. And so I've got this local group of people here, and then I have some in other cities that when I go there to work or I want to work on something in their region, I can just call them up and say, Hey, I'm working on this. Would you be willing to join forces again? And they're like, yeah. Right.
[00:17:22] And so they know they're my go to, I'm not like having a whole big, long contact list. I got my go-to people. And so the attitude is if you shine, I shine. So I'm going to give you a platform to shine and share your talents. And we're going to end up being basically amplifying each other's talent, So it's putting together that specific group of people, identifying gifts and talents, letting everybody basically get their shine on and go from there. And I think that's what allows me to be able to turn ideas into reality consistently.
[00:17:53] Greg Bell: [00:17:53] Absolutely. I love that. my terminology is your Bamboo Circles, right?
[00:17:57] Yeah. Cause I think that having those sort of connections and deep roots well, there's a part of that too though. There's this myth out there the singular genius though, I always find that fascinating. Like people say Greg Bell, blah, blah, blah. I'm thinking I'm so connected to people that, that, that have helped me It's not just me.
[00:18:15]So I love how you described that, one of the things though. I know that a lot of people struggle with and you can help us sort of think this through, is that idea of the imposter syndrome, like. I see this on a lot of people where they don't feel like they deserve to be seen or they feel like they maybe it's just a self-esteem, I'm not sure what it is, but it's a whole like imposter syndrome.
[00:18:39] Help us walk through that a little bit. I mean, have you worked with a lot of leaders and you coach a lot of people, what kind of steps can somebody who sort of experienced that? What can they do?
[00:18:49] Kevin Carroll: [00:18:49] So a big part of what I talk about is how you're showing up more authentically. We hear that word a lot, but I always go back to, if you can't be comfortable with you and you're not happy with you, then you're going to have trouble in any circle that you go into.
[00:19:07] And so one of the big unlocks, if you will, for my life was when I realized I ain't for everybody. And I'm okay with it. And that was freeing for me when I discovered that everybody doesn't have to feel my energy. Everybody doesn't have to want to work with me. Everybody doesn't have to love me up.
[00:19:27] Right. You know what? We just keep it moving. I don't have to be in your circle nor do you have to be in mine and find more people that are relatable and find me approachable. But as who I am and showing up as me. Always right. And so I think that's been the most freeing thing. And when I was younger, no, of course I felt like I had to be a certain way and act a certain way and show up a certain way.
[00:19:52] But as I got older, I started realizing that's not me. And so that was where I started to have the tension between is that an imposter going up there or is that truly me and the more that I started realizing I just gotta be me. And if it's not vibing with you, it's fine because I'm going to be in a place of abundance, Greg Bell, not scarcity.
[00:20:14] Greg Bell: [00:20:14] I love that. That is so good. That is so, so good. I just, Oh, I love that. I just think, find your tribe and roll with them, right. That's really good.
[00:20:24] Kevin Carroll: [00:20:24] Yes. And I think that's where a lot of people make mistakes, trying to be liked by everybody. It's impossible.
[00:20:31] Greg Bell: [00:20:31] Yeah. It's like, take the mask off, have some vulnerability.
[00:20:35] Kevin Carroll: [00:20:35] Come on now, that's on the nose. Take the mask off, have some transparency. Right. And that vulnerability, it takes courage, doesn't it? But that's the unlock, right? That's it? Is that being courageous enough to show up as you.
[00:20:49]Greg Bell: [00:20:49] Yeah. One of the things we you heard that term that goes around just being comfortable, being uncomfortable too, and having that Bamboo Circle or as you say, your team around you, your tribe that can help you sort of be that.
[00:21:04] And not everyone is going to be with that. I love that idea like that. I'm just going to go. I had a super helpful.
[00:21:10]You've had a lot of really interesting experiences on a personal level, on a professional level. I mean, tons of them. I mean, you've got your books, your speaking engagements, all the things you do, all the things you do are just quite remarkable.
[00:21:22] But if you were to sort of come up with two or three things what would you say would be like? That was really, that was the one that really, that was my, one of my proudest moments or plural moments, not just one, but what would you land on?
[00:21:36] Kevin Carroll: [00:21:36] I think, well, one of them would be for sure. One of the proudest moments was Ms. Lane actually would say for every one of the books, Ms. Lane always came to any of my book launches. So I'd fly her out or she would meet me on the road. Right. Whatever it might be. But Ms. Lane was always there. So she was there for every one of the first three book launches. And then I got to speak in Philadelphia for the national athletic trainers association, but I was no longer an athletic trainer.
[00:22:04]So they brought me to speak to my former Guild, if you will. Right now, as this subject matter expert outside of it. Wow. So I think that was in my hometown. And so one of the crazy things is I'm doing the rehearsal and all these union guys are setting up the big convention center, downtown in Philly and I'm saying a little bit of my warm up and everything. And I say, yeah, come, it's wonderful to be home and somebody yells from like scaffold, where are you from? And I was like I said out from outside, out, out in Bryn Mawr. Bryn Mawr, where'd he go to school? I said, I went to Harvard High.
[00:22:44] Joey, isn't that where your sister's kids go Harvard High and he goes, yeah. Right. And then they started yelling. They said, what year? And I'm like giving them all this information. I said, when I was at St. Joe's, he was at St. Joe's big five basketball and they start yelling and stuff. They said, Anything you need, you let us know.
[00:23:02] And it made me realize, right. You could always go home if you don't stop being honest and true right. To who you are. And so Ms. Lane got to see me on stage the next day, but these guys are like running and helping me with all my stuff on stage did she say you had a whole crew of people? I said they really want it to be helpful.
[00:23:22] Cause they heard me tell a bit of my story yesterday Ms. Lane, she said, that's so wonderful to see that. And I started to understand, the power of not forgetting where you came from and including those who helped you along the way. And Ms. Lane was always, I included her in everything, but Greg you notice about me relationships really mattered to me, and I'm really good at staying connected to people and I'm really attentive. Right. And intentional about that. And that stems all the way from my childhood of not having a traditional family unit. So I had to make friends and keep friends because if something was going to go down I need to make sure somebody got me. Right. So like, I ain't got nobody just to call on. So I started understanding the power of relationships, right. And community and nurturing that. And I've got long friendships with people. Melanie, Ms. Lane's daughter. And I have been friends since we met that day when I was nine.
[00:24:24] I've been friends with Melanie for 53 years. Never lost touch.
[00:24:29]So I think, those really key moments were always with, including the lanes and inviting them to be a part of it. And yeah. I just think that's always been important to me is including those who helped me along the way.
[00:24:43] And always letting them know this doesn't happen without you. You're a part of this. And so I always say I'm a mosaic of many people. My success is a mosaic of all those moments and people that have helped me.
[00:24:56] Greg Bell: [00:24:56] I appreciate you sort of tying that into relationships. One thing I just simply say, the relationships will get you all the results you want.
[00:25:02] Don't have them. No results. I mean, it's so, so important to sort of focus on that. And then even that, like you said, it earlier about even the relationship with yourself, how important that is. But if you were to take yourself back a bit, like, like when you're a teenager, let's say 15 years old and knowing all the things you know, and all the experiences you have, what advice would you give your, the 15 year old, Kevin Carroll, what would you say to him that you wish you'd known then?
[00:25:29] Kevin Carroll: [00:25:29] Someone asked me this question the other day you know, what would you tell your younger self at this point? And I honestly, it's something that I already kind of alluded to earlier in our conversation. Everybody doesn't have to like you and you don't have to be for everybody and it's okay. And you need to keep showing up as you, you need to be true to you and recognize who you are, that you have gifts and talents and things to offer, and you don't have to put on a mask.
[00:26:00] You can show up exactly the way you are and those who see you like really see you, they'll get you. And I think that was a thing that I. Wish I had known earlier, but you know what? I, you only know what you don't know. And I learned it exactly the way I was supposed to learn it. And now to have, an opportunity to tell that story, that new book that I did with Jelani memory the belonging book, and, that's what it's all about.
[00:26:25] Belonging to yourself first, then you belong anywhere.
[00:26:28] Greg Bell: [00:26:28] Yeah, I was going to get into that book. But I appreciate you wrapping that in here because this idea of belonging and being true to who you are. I mean, even as adults, I can, we can use that message, right?
[00:26:39] Kevin Carroll: [00:26:39] A lot of adults, I can't tell you how many I've been Shawshanking and a lot of folks, Greg Bell, during this pandemic.
[00:26:47] I've been doing the Morgan Freeman forum. I've been the wise Sage for him. Right. Because folks have been like, what? I don't know what to do. How do I navigate this? This is a lot. And I've been telling them this is a great opportunity for you to start working on you.
[00:27:03] Greg Bell: [00:27:03] Right. Turn it in inside.
[00:27:06] Kevin Carroll: [00:27:06] Right? Cause you ain't got nowhere to go and got to where to be.
[00:27:09] So you've got time. So what could you improve on, what could you work on? How could you get better? How could you level up? Right. And that whole idea that we talked about, you're an app. I always tell people you're the greatest app ever created. You need to stay in beta as a human being. Right. Always updating, always improving.
[00:27:29] And you just got, well now it's nine monthsand counting. What have you done with this time?
[00:27:33] Greg Bell: [00:27:33] Cause that's exactly what I asked myself is what could I do in the pandemic that I wouldn't be able to do otherwise. I mean, with all the travel and all this stuff, I wouldn't be able to do a podcast.
[00:27:44] It just wouldn't happen. So I said, Oh, let's do this, give out sort of the knowledge and wisdom for my friends, that they have just sort of figured out a way to sort of be valuable to the community. But one of the things that, that I want to ask you about, and it's interesting because I think.
[00:27:57]I don't know, you and I have had all kinds of great personal conversations that I've helped me get through fears or challenges or what have you. And I always think beers are like pandas, right? They eat your bamboo, right. But I want you to sort of talk, talk to people that may be listening, somebody driving in their car wherever they are, somewhere in the US or anywhere in the world or listening, however they're listening.
[00:28:16]But when fears come up for people. I mean, I think it's you've sort of navigated this. Like you've had some, so many challenges that you've overcome, but let's just say I'm listening to this and I have a real fear or real doubt around something. Is there any step process that I would do?
[00:28:32] Or would you have any sort of ideas? Just somebody that's sorta like catatonic right now and they're listening. What would you tell them?
[00:28:38]Kevin Carroll: [00:28:38] So one of the things I think is really important when you're up against it. You're facing something that seemingly insurmountable, right. And it's overwhelming you, breathe, breathe first, breathe.
[00:28:55] And as you start to catch those breaths, you're more still allow clarity to come into play. And is this circle of concern, circle of influence, whatever way you want to look at it, but is this something out of my control, pandemic or something that I can con control my attitude? So now my attitude is something I can control.
[00:29:18] Okay. So how do I choose to show up? Because if my attitude is a specific way that maybe I can start to put together some steps to navigate this thing that was, seems to be insurmountable seems to be overwhelming, but maybe it's not as big a behemoth as we believe. Yes, it's going to be challenging. Yes it might be difficult. Yes. It might not turn out exactly the way I want, but how do you navigate this? The ambiguity, the uncertainty, the upheaval in a way that you do it with grit and grace.
[00:29:52]Greg Bell: [00:29:52] Going back to breath because that's a fascinating way to sort of think about it because I always tell people that in a relaxed body, you can't have a stressed out mind. Like it just, it's not possible. So I liked that idea. And I want to circle back though, to your belonging book though. I want to sort of have, because I heard that got sort of, highlighted by Oprah, like one of her favorite things.
[00:30:14] Kevin Carroll: [00:30:14] Yeah, they got on the list.
[00:30:17] He got on the list. Yeah. Oprah's favorite things, she selected 10 books from the series. 10 different authors got highlighted by Oprah Winfrey for her favorite things for the holiday at 2020. And so, yeah it's quite unexpected and delightful at the same time. But I think the greatest thing about this whole a kid's book about series and collaborating with Jelani memory.
[00:30:41] His, he was my son's first friend. I knew that 23 years ago moved from Philly to Portland. We're unpacking and Multnomah village is Southwest Portland. And my son rides his bike down the corner comes back like 15 minutes later with Jelani memory, he's only 13. 23 years later. I'm collaborating with him on this book.
[00:31:06] And I mean, so talk about what I said earlier. Relationships. I never saw this kid and said, you might be something someday. I need to keep you close.
[00:31:19] Even just this kid that came over to the house on a regular, played soccer, basketball with my son all through high school. And, I was, let's go all the way back. I was one of is early encouragers. Ronnie like photography, creativity, storytelling, all these. And I encouraged him all that time.
[00:31:38]I was always the person he came to with his ideas and I always challenged him. So I was behaving and the other day he said, you're my Ms. Lane.
[00:31:47]Greg Bell: [00:31:47] One of the things I want you to touch on. And cause I seen it like I've seen you have this sorta kind of crazy workout morning routine. And what I know about successful people is they have routine There's something about, I haven't talked to a CEO, a leader or anybody that doesn't have a really good routine, but let us have a little insight into your routine. You don't have to tell us everything, but let's have it like what's your, when you have your best day, what routines do you go through?
[00:32:15] Kevin Carroll: [00:32:15] I think, it goes back to sports, being around athletes, being an athlete back in the day, just understanding the discipline and the requirement to keep showing up and doing those same things and trusting and believing that hard work, right. It's going to pay off. But also at this point in my life, I'm not prepping for a marathon or some triathlon or whatever. It's not that it's more about meeting the day and I'm competing for the day. So look, we're in a competitive cauldron every day.
[00:32:50]We're competing for our hopes, our dreams, our aspirations every single day. So how are you getting your mind right in your body right. To fight the good fight. That's my attitude. So I have my routines, some kind of movement will happen. Right? I'm always making sure that I'm, eating, drinking proper things.
[00:33:09] Recovery is important. I'm not a long sleeper, but I get good sleep, but I like getting up early in the morning. Cause it's quiet. It's more meditative when I work out, I like the quiet and I like just moving my body and exerting it and challenging it. I like the sense of having to overcome something to start the day.
[00:33:28] There's this thing that. There was this guy that, what was it, what was the book called? It was living with seal. This guy lived with a Navy seal for like a year. And so it was, the book was called Living With Seal. And so we had these, like what I learned from seal, he called him seal all the time and one of them was, do something hard every day.
[00:33:45]Do something hard every day. Because when you have overcome something hard already to start your day in the morning, what's the rest of the day going to bring. right. It's like, it's all, let's go bring it on. And so I think that's a big part of what I, really have actively practiced and movement's always been my mojo.
[00:34:03] So I've always been about moving. And my thing is, when my body's emotion, my mind is free,
[00:34:08] Greg Bell: [00:34:08] I want you to touch a little bit, if you would on the concept of play. And one of the things I know about you is that you say that play is serious business.
[00:34:18] I always think that's a funny statement. It just makes me laugh.
[00:34:22]Kevin Carroll: [00:34:22] It's a great oxymoron. Yeah.
[00:34:26] Greg Bell: [00:34:26] But I want you to talk about it because I think that a lot of executives, a lot of people, I work with a lot of people listening to this are serious. Like they're, they're I got to Water my Bamboo, I'm going to do whatever.
[00:34:37] And then here you come, say it talking about play. Help us with that. Why is it serious business?
[00:34:43] Kevin Carroll: [00:34:43] So think about it in these terms. One of the things that we do all the time within business settings, team settings high-performing atmospheres where people who are have goals and visions and trying to get to them, you have to be able to do certain things to get there.
[00:35:00] Collaboration, communication. Teamwork. Problem solving. Conflict resolution negotiation, right? Respect, empathy. Think about all those things, right? Those all sound very businessy termy. Guess what? Those are all play terms, Those are all things that happen on the playground, which is as they like to say the greatest classroom ever.
[00:35:23]And so that's why I say play is serious business. We learned so many of our lifelong skills and tools and resources and things that we can use through play. Regardless of your physical ability play is always present. Everyone has a play history, everyone, some way shape or form or movement is if you're alive, there is movement, which means there's blood flow.
[00:35:47] Greg Bell: [00:35:47] I've got my next book idea, this is good.
[00:35:49] Kevin Carroll: [00:35:49] Movement is at the foundation of that, right? Maxine Sheets Johnstone she's from actually Oregon wrote a book called Primacy of Movement. She talks about when there is breath and when you have blood flow, there is movement. Right. And that is at the foundation of everything.
[00:36:04]And so play is serious business because it's also at the root of ingenuity, problem solving, abstract thinking, innovation, imagination, all these things that we're being called to do in the workplace. So don't think that's because you've got some lofty title and all of these letters after your name.
[00:36:21] Right. JD all that stuff you got Greg Bell. No, it's because the reason is because you have play in your life.
[00:36:32]And you have allowed play to stay. You might not have elevated it where you think it's really important, but it is.
[00:36:38]Greg Bell: [00:36:38] I love that idea of elevating play. Like I said, I was going to interrupt you and say, I got my next book.
[00:36:43] Kevin Carroll: [00:36:43] I know? I heard you say it. He said, there's a new book in there. That's what's up.
[00:36:46] Greg Bell: [00:36:46] Play in the Bamboo Grove.
[00:36:49] Kevin Carroll: [00:36:49] To see that, that's the way it works. That's what happens when we get together. Know, I know it's
[00:36:54] sparks like that.
[00:36:55] Greg Bell: [00:36:55] I know it's dangerous. When I talk to you,
[00:36:57]Kevin Carroll: [00:36:57] Tell your wife. I know your wife's going to know.
[00:37:00] You're going to know who you just talked to you. She's like you got that Kevin Carroll look. Cause she's seen it before.
[00:37:06]Greg Bell: [00:37:06] One of the things that it occurred to me. And this is probably the other reason I probably was like excited and nervous to talk to you.
[00:37:13] I was like, man, I got to ask him the right question. Like, you know what I mean? Like I, and so I said, well, maybe I can get you to tell me what question I should be asking. What should I be asking you? Like...
[00:37:27] Kevin Carroll: [00:37:27] You know what you should be asking me, Greg Bell, you should be asking me, how am I actively practicing what I've been talking about during the pandemic, in my own backyard.
[00:37:39] Greg Bell: [00:37:39] Hey, Kevin, I wanted to know how have you been practicing what you've been talking about in your own backyard?
[00:37:47] Kevin Carroll: [00:37:47] I've been leaving care packages and my neighborhood on the porches of families. Helping to encourage them through these rough times.
[00:37:57] And what it's created has been remarkable.
[00:38:01] Greg Bell: [00:38:01] Oh, I love that.
[00:38:02]Kevin Carroll: [00:38:02] We are so much more neighborly and connected. Through just random acts of kindness, checking on each other, leaving something. Then someone leaves vegetables in front of our door with a note, Oh, someone's waving from their window.
[00:38:17] Someone's saying, hello. Hey, I understand you wrote a book. Is there any way you would sign some, I want to give them to my kids. Hey, would you come talk to my team? We're really struggling right now. Hey, my daughter is not able to play any sports right now. She's really struggling. Would you talk to her?
[00:38:34] You came to one of her games, remember? And so that's, what's been happening and I've been saying, look I'm into physical distancing, but I'm staying social, bruh.
[00:38:44]Greg Bell: [00:38:44] I got way too many goosebumps over here so I just appreciate that. Cause that, that right there is very interesting. So everyone had their own experience with the pandemic and that I was, I remember being in San Antonio, Texas and doing this keynote speech and this woman comes up and says, hi, I need to make an announcement. No one can shake hands.
[00:39:01] No one can, whatever. And the director. Comes up after my talk at big bear hug, standing ovation, everyone's hugging and all this stuff. And we all realized, Oh, she just said go to the bathrooms, washing their hands or whatever. I get back and everything is everything's getting postponed, you had your own experience with this sort of thing shutting down.
[00:39:18] And it took me about a week to kind of realize. Kind of like you, like, I'm a first responder. I got to go out and help people. And it's interesting what you talked about, like a character I've received a Kevin Caroll care package. So like, I know what that is and I know it's, but so, but it's just an interesting thing.
[00:39:35] So let's just say somebody listening right now is not Greg Bell, it's not Kevin Carroll. How can they show up with these random acts? Like what can they do in their communities? Because I love that saying, you just said, it's definitely physical distance, but how can people stay some random acts and be social and connect?
[00:39:53]Kevin Carroll: [00:39:53] Stay social well, I think first and foremost, just checking on each other in a way where. When you see people out and about making sure you're saying hello, And not just ignoring people. And then, if you're in an office building or you're on your zoom calls, there's this really great document I actually been shared with a lot of people, 20 questions to ask someone besides how are you doing now?
[00:40:24] And they're great questions. Like what's a habit you started or stopped since this. What's your COVID comfort food. What's giving you hope right now. So even just the way we're framing our questions in our interacts with each other can shift, the dynamic, right. And the way that we're showing up for each other.
[00:40:44] And so start with your family first model for them, this idea of how we can show that we're becoming better grown-ups doing through all this. A friend of mine wrote an amazing book called Becoming Better Grownups, Brad Montague. It's really great because it's just these great, simple reminders. Of we need to be modeling for the next gen.
[00:41:05] They're watching us. So guess what if your kids are a hot mess, they're getting it right in front of them. It's you? So you got to recognize that if your team is a hot mess, guess where they're getting it from you, the leader, So you need to pay attention to those things. As my grandfather said, pay attention to your intention.
[00:41:22]Greg Bell: [00:41:22] I love that because I love this idea of asking better questions. My last book, What's Going Well?, that's the one I've sort of been spreading around and sort of this idea, because...
[00:41:31]Kevin Carroll: [00:41:31] So you know, you were in, you were inspirational for me during this pandemic, Greg Bell. Because that book spurred me to say, Hey, if I'm going to double down on optimism and positivity, I need to learn the science.
[00:41:45] So I took a specialization through Coursera, five courses over 20 weeks in positive psychology, Marty Seligman. And so, you know all about that because I know that's the framework around What's Going Well? It's positive psychology. So I saw you posting things on that. I'm like, what's that phrase. He keeps using that.
[00:42:09] And I went down the rabbit hole.
[00:42:11] Greg Bell: [00:42:11] I love it. I can't believe it.
[00:42:13] Kevin Carroll: [00:42:13] Just so you know, I have a specialization in positive psychology from the university of Pennsylvania and Marty Seligman because of you Greg Bell.
[00:42:21]Greg Bell: [00:42:21] This is why I did the interview with you to figure out one way. I encouraged you. That is awesome. Thank you for that.
[00:42:31] Your 20 questions thing is really powerful because I always tell people that if you ask yourself lousy questions, You're going to get lousy answers and so asking better questions, that's really where the What's Going Well came from. It's like, well, what if we all ask ourselves better questions? Because humans are amazing as asking those better questions.
[00:42:50] I just appreciate you sort of sharing that sort of deep bit. And I also, I heard that you'd done that positive psychology certificate. So I'm glad you raised it as a point here.
[00:42:58]One of the thoughts I had though is what advice or what, what parting words would you have to Bamboo Nation, if you will, what would you just, I want to just give you the floor, like from Kevin Carroll.
[00:43:11] Kevin Carroll: [00:43:11] So I'll give you three things. Doubt is success testing you. So anytime that doubt shows up, just understand what's happening. Right. That's part of the crucible as part of the challenge. And that's something we need to be paying attention to. That doubt is success testing you, right? When you start doubting yourself, are you doubting your journey?
[00:43:33] You're doubting this effort, right? It's just part of the test. It's testing you, do you really want this? Then you keep soldiering forward. Right? You keep it moving. You keep going forward. Right. You find a way. And I think that's one of the things that everyone is facing right now is a lot of doubt. So just know that's part of the test.
[00:43:52] I think the other thing is the idea of failure. Ever tried, ever failed, no matter, try again, fail again. Fail better. Right. And so Samuel Beckett said that. So the whole idea of failing forward, failing better. Right? Just getting better, always improving, always staying in beta. Our apps are never going to be perfect.
[00:44:14] They don't say that to you, but it's all about failing forward. They're going to fail. They know that it's part of the design, So we're just the same way you're going to have these times where you glitch, right? Where you have a little hiccup where things aren't quite right. Do you let that derail you or do you hang in there and try to find a way?
[00:44:35] And I think the last thing is, we need to be able to envisioned possibilities all the time. And so this is a paraphrasing this quote, but whatever you can do or dream, you can begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. So be bold. Start it now. And that's from WH Murray. And so the whole idea of magic, right?
[00:44:59] It's suspending belief. When we were kids, we believed in all kinds of fanciful, crazy things didn't we? We need to still do that as adults. And imagine the impossible and then go make it real. And I think that's, what's available for us, right. Is this brave new world is going to be on the other side of this.
[00:45:17] And we're in this liminal space right now, right. Greg, no longer and not yet. The liminal space is the in-between. That's where we're at. So what will you do with this time in between?
[00:45:27]Greg Bell: [00:45:27] That's a great parting message, man. I could just go on for another hour listening to you.
[00:45:34] Kevin Carroll: [00:45:34] This is what we, this is what we would do stat on the corner, Northeast PDX, you and I would be out there like home. And people will be walking by, like those guys have been here for a long time.
[00:45:44] Greg Bell: [00:45:44] Yeah. But I think that the with you, Kevin, I think you I was talking to Dan Wyden one time I was in his office. And he was talking and I don't know some project we're kind of working on.
[00:45:55] And he said to me, he says, if you and Kevin Carroll got together, wow. He just kept saying that I go, I was like, Oh, I laughed about it because I think a week later we were getting together.
[00:46:07] Kevin Carroll: [00:46:07] Oh, that's funny. Dan is like my summer camp friend. When we meet each other, it's always sparks.
[00:46:12] Like, and we might not see each other for years. But it's always the same energy. And I you and I are very similar. We can go months without seeing each other. But when we come back, it's like summer camp friends. Like we didn't miss a beat.
[00:46:26] Greg Bell: [00:46:26] I love that. I love the synergy that you have, but I, one of the things I do know about you though, you have that with so many people, you are a treasure to the world.
[00:46:34] I. I admire you so much, and I just, I, just tickled that you would take some time out of your day and sort of speak to Bamboo Nation if you would. Now, but what we're going to have to close with the Water the Bamboo oath okay. I have my band on by Water the Bamboo band on. I need to get you to raise your right hand and repeat after me.
[00:46:53] Okay. No matter what challenges come my way,
[00:46:57] Kevin Carroll: [00:46:57] No matter what challenges come my way,
[00:46:59] Greg Bell: [00:46:59] I will.
[00:47:00] Kevin Carroll: [00:47:00] I will continue
[00:47:02] Greg Bell: [00:47:02] To Water the Bamboo.
[00:47:04] Kevin Carroll: [00:47:04] To Water the Bamboo and that's water. W D E R. That's how we spell it in Philly just so y'all know,
[00:47:12] we have a book publisher say, is that Walter the bamboo,
[00:47:18] Greg Bell: [00:47:18] Hey man, I love you, man.
[00:47:19] Kevin Carroll: [00:47:19] I really love you too, man.
[00:47:21] Greg Bell: [00:47:21] Thank you so much for jumping on, and I know this interview is going to help a ton of people. And I look forward to getting on the other side with you. Okay. Absolutely.
[00:47:33] Kevin Carroll: [00:47:33] Yes. Be well, brother.
[00:47:34] Greg Bell: [00:47:34] Yeah, you too. Cheers.