Leon Rice once turned down owning a business to become a volunteer basketball coach. People thought he was crazy. But he stuck to his goals of becoming a head basketball coach, and he knew that he had to become a superstar at every job he held.
That’s what he’s trying to teach his players--to become a superstar in whatever role they hold.
In this episode, you’ll hear from Boise State Men’s Basketball Head Coach on his life story and how he Watered the Bamboo all the way to where he is now.
Don’t miss this incredible story!
Episode Highlights:
02:26 - Who’s in Leon’s Bamboo Circle
05:58 - How Leon is growing his team at Boise State
10:57 - Why players come back
12:41 - Advice for leaders on how to build a great culture
16:40 - What kind of “pandas” show up for Leon
19:48 - Leon’s advice to a young Leon Rice
25:19 - Leon’s routines on his best day
31:15 - Why Leon turned town the opportunity to own a bar in order to volunteer as a coach
34:54 - Why it’s important to focus on the essentials
36:33 - How do you help your team overcome a heartbreaking loss?
41:58 - Leon’s approach to coaching his son
46:38 - Advice to Bamboo Nation
54:00 - Why Leon approaches coaching basketball like he watches his son’s Lacrosse games
Guest at a Glance
Leon Paul Rice is the head men's basketball coach at Boise State University. In his first season as head coach, he led Boise State to the finals of the 2011 WAC Men's Basketball Tournament and to the semifinals of the 2011 College Basketball Invitational. He is the first Boise State head coach to win 20 games in two of his first three seasons and has 20 or more wins in eight of his ten seasons. In 2013, he guided the Broncos to their first ever at-large bid to the NCAA Tournament. In 2015, he led the Broncos to their first ever Mountain West regular season championship, and first conference title for Boise State since 2008, and was named the Mountain West coach of the year. On February 13, 2021, Rice won his 214th game to become the winningest head coach in Boise State history. Rice was a part of Mark Few's first coaching staff at Gonzaga. Rice is cited by Few as being instrumental to the Bulldogs current and past success as a program.
Notable Quotes
“I have a lot of people that have my back and that I can rely on in tough times.”
“Community takes commitment”
“Lots going on in the world and you're going to have tough days. Well, get there, encourage others, lift your teammate up, and look them in the eye.”
“I want our guys to understand is by pouring into others, you're actually going to lift yourself up and, and help the quality and Things that you're going to accomplish are going to be even greater than when you're trying to do it by yourself.”
“By getting through this program, they've won because they've established these habits and these characteristics that are going to help them the rest of their lives.”
“Culture trumps schemes, every time.”
“If you're always striving and you're not there in the moment to enjoy it you're really going to be unhappy.”
“We are, what our habits say we are”
“Find what you're passionate about. Find what you love to do, and success will follow you.”
“Look at Tom Brady, look at Michael Jordan, what they are is they have the perfect response to failure. That's what the great ones can do.”
“You get to the end of the day and you're like, Oh, I just didn't have time for that today, I'll do double tomorrow or something like that, that doesn't work for me.”
“You watch the golfers, the great golfers. They're going to hit bad shots. But then the next one's not going to be bad. You never see the great golfers hit two bad shots in a row, because they have the perfect response to their mistake.”
“For me to be a successful head coach, I had to be a star in that volunteer role and that meant putting in the shoe laces.”
Transcript
Greg Bell: [00:00:00] I think about our college days, I think about you and your career, but you've had a lot of success in basketball. It's just amazing. I mean, the things you did at Gonzaga, how you grew the program, I mean, what you've done at Boise state, it's just like amazing. But I think of three words with you, first of all, fun, like Leon is fun. I also think of you as being really competitive.
[00:00:20] But it's interesting to combine those two fun and competitive, but then there's this other element about you, I think is really interesting. It's like crafty, like super smart, like to figure it out and to do that. Did I nail that about you?
[00:00:34] Leon Rice: [00:00:34] Well, I appreciate that, but I do believe the first two. I'm not sure I believe the third one. Maybe crafty, but I know there's a lot of guys smarter than me.
[00:00:45] And I think one of my strengths is I surround myself with smart people. I think maybe I try to rely on some common sense and simplicity to my approach to things. And when you get smart guys around you that maybe can do the things that you can't do or that you don't like to do.
[00:01:01] I think that that can sometimes make you look smart. That's interesting that the thing that, that always struck me and that stuck with me over the years is when I had this opportunity at Boise state , I didn't want to leave Gonzaga. I mean, I had such a great family life there and our family life was with our coaches too.
[00:01:20] Mark and I were best friends. Our families were intertwined. But the thing that stuck with me was Dan Munson said to me like, Hey, you can create what you want to create a Boise State. You can create that family atmosphere. You can create that fun that you've had there. And and the competitiveness, what you said was observant because that's how I try to make my practices look every day where we're doing something innovative, where we have fun with it. And we compete. Those three things. If we're doing those three things every single day at practice, then they're successful. And that's how I want our practice plan to look. When you walk away from watching one of our practices, I hope you say that man, that looked like fun. Those guys were competing their tails off and well, you guys do some good stuff.
[00:02:03]So I think that is kind of my criteria. I think you summed it up with those three things of what I want everyday to be about.
[00:02:11]Greg Bell: [00:02:11] I've known you for a long, long time. In fact, I introduced your wife to you and you owe me, you know by the way! I'm still waiting for my big check.
[00:02:20] Leon Rice: [00:02:20] You don't even know, that's on the way I'm telling you.
[00:02:24] I always tell that story. Absolutely.
[00:02:26]Greg Bell: [00:02:26] When I talk about Water the Bamboo, I also talk about this idea of a Bamboo Circle. Like having support around you, how important that is. And you mentioned a couple of names, Mark Few, a dear friend of ours and Dan Munson, some people we've known for 30, 40 years, but what's interesting about the Bamboo Circle concept for me. And I want you to talk a little bit more about this because a lot of people think you gotta be the singular genius, right? You gotta do it all alone to make it in life. Again, you had so much success, coach of the year and all that.
[00:02:58] But a lot of people listening right now are thinking I got to do it myself. But what you said is just totally opposite of that. Talk a little bit more about your Bamboo Circle and how important that is to have those relationships.
[00:03:09] Leon Rice: [00:03:09] And it's not only is it important, but it's the most rewarding thing. And to have these deep friendships, you know, like ours that go back.
[00:03:17] So much history, 30 years, and then you're going to go through tough times, especially when you're taking on big challenges and to have friends and mentors, people you can lean on and people that you know, are there for you. You go back to that and maybe, this helped me too. I just, I go back to when I took this job and made this leap out of Gonzaga to be a head coach in the mountain West and at Boise State, I just remember also a good friend of mine.
[00:03:43] Mark Turgeon said, he said, Hey, I was walking away from something really special and a great life. And to jump, to make that leap is always a hard one. And Mark Turgeon said to me, he's like, you know, go do it. And if you don't like it, I'll create a position on my staff and you'll be fine. It almost gave you that okay, I can do this because when you take on those big challenges, everybody, you know, those big life steps that you have to take sometimes to get the success and get to where you want to get to. It always happens that way. You always have to make those big jumps, but to have those friends and that support behind you to know that I got people behind me backing me. And, and so I'm not doing this on my own and I think that's okay. But, you know, maybe that's the most valuable part of it is to know that I have a lot of people that have my back and that I can rely on in tough times and that I know there's 20 guys I can get my cell phone and call when I need some help and they'll be there for me.
[00:04:38] And that's important. And I hope I know that guy for other people too.
[00:04:41] Greg Bell: [00:04:41] I mean, we've had some great conversations around that stuff. I mean, really, it's interesting how, talking to you. I get all fired up. I was teasing the other day. Like you're inspiring, you're the inspirer. It was really cool.
[00:04:51] So I liked that idea that you can sort of rely on people that way. And I think it's sort of good for the listeners to hear that. But when you think about the idea of Water the Bamboo and that concept, not just your own personal coaching, what comes up for you when you think about Water the Bamboo
[00:05:08]Leon Rice: [00:05:08] Before I move on to that, I do want to touch on the Bamboo Circle thing. I think that's a great concept, especially right now, we're talking about my specific situation, but with all these people, I think so many with the isolation that we've gone through with all this, so many people need that and they need to find a way to connect. Community takes commitment. And when you're outside of the community and locked away and isolated, and you know, you talk about, I think a big topic right now is the mental health of people and that mental health needs to be connected. And so that's why that, I think that Bamboo Circle concept right now is maybe one of the most important things we could talk about.
[00:05:47] I am glad that you're hitting on that and touching on that and helping people with that. Cause that's what I'm trying to do with my team and my find collective ways and creative ways that we can impact people in each other.
[00:05:58] Greg Bell: [00:05:58] What kinds of things are you doing with your team? That just be, I'd be really curious because I think that when I think about the bamboo, like one stock grows up, but what's interesting is its roots where each stock will go over a hundred yards.
[00:06:10] So staying connected is not visible. I love that term you used, community takes commitment. What kinds of things are you doing with your team that maybe audience members could take on for their own teams? What kinds of things are you doing?
[00:06:22]Leon Rice: [00:06:22] I start with when we started our getting together with our team and I started with this great quote that I heard when the student asked I'm very discouraged, what should I do? Zen master said, encourage others. And in this time, in this tough time, you know, people are getting discouraged and I'll tell you there's nothing, you know, even us as leaders when we're supposed to be leading these guys we can get discouraged because we want more contact. We want things normal. We want to be together with our team and. And so it affects everyone. There's nobody that's not affected by this. And I get to practice and I get to work with guys and encourage them and I walk away feeling great. And so I want them to understand that that, Hey, you're having a tough day. Things are gonna happen. I mean, lots going on in the world and you're going to have tough days. Well,get there, encourage others, lifts your teammate up and look them in the eye.
[00:07:14] You know, we're having to find creative ways because we're trying to avoid physical contact as much as we can. And, you know, we usually chart touches at practice and we want to know who's connected to the team and who's touching each other. Well, now it's almost like let's replace our touches maybe with eye contact.
[00:07:31] And we're trying to find creative ways to connect with each other and verbalize that connection. Maybe like I said, eye contact getting maybe six feet apart instead of going and touching each other, but we still have that connection. Cause I think that's the most important thing.
[00:07:47] Greg Bell: [00:07:47] Boy, that is awesome. I love this idea of encouragement because there's only two times in people's lives that they're guaranteed encouragement is when they learn to walk. And when they learn to talk. And the rest of the time, we tell people to shut up and sit down. So I love that idea of encouraging others, particularly when you're not feeling well. I know that certainly works for me. And the other thing that you talked about, I think it was just so, so important is we're physically distanced, but it doesn't mean we should be socially distant.
[00:08:16] I mean, I think that's a really
[00:08:18] Leon Rice: [00:08:18] Well, we have to find creative ways to make up for that. And in whatever ways is there going to be different for each person. I heard somebody talking today, you know, if you're good at technology zoom, if you're not good, Text, if you're really challenged call somebody, I mean, you just got to find ways and that's what I want our guys to do.
[00:08:35] And, and to know, you know, like back to your Bamboo Circle, to know that we're there for you, to know that you're not in this alone and you're going to go through some moments of, you know, and I'm dealing with guys from 18 to 22 years old plus my staff. And so we spent a lot of time talking about this and how we can help each other and what we can do.
[00:08:54] And you know, you go back to tell the story about Chandler Hutchinson and his growth and development. He was the first round pick by the Chicago Bulls a couple of years ago and his growth and development and all his accolades and all the great things happened to him when he really let himself go and started pouring into others more.
[00:09:14] You know, as first two years, you know, you get there and everyone's talking about you and what you have to do to get there. Right? Well, he became a great teammate. His attitude was terrific. We were talking about that. His gratitude was rated the highest on the team, the way he gave back to the team. Well, as soon as he started doing that, it was counterintuitive. He became the leading scorer in the Mountain West, but it was when he started pouring into the team more that all these things happened to him. And so those are the lessons I want our guys to understand is by pouring into others, you're actually going to lift yourself up and, and help the quality and Things that you're going to accomplish are going to be even greater than when you're trying to do it by yourself.
[00:09:49] Greg Bell: [00:09:49] That is really good stuff. I think that it's interesting. It makes me think about, there are times when I walk into a room and if I walk into that room thinking about myself, it doesn't work. But if I walk in the room thinking about how to serve others, It's magical.
[00:10:04] I think that that's a really good thing to have young men on your team know, but obviously the audience can really benefit from that comment .That's really, really good.
[00:10:14] Leon Rice: [00:10:14] And that's one of our, we have five maxims and that's that's one of them is serve. The Maxim that we before me attitude that I don't seek credit, I'm quick to give credit.
[00:10:23] And when you're like that, it all ends up coming back to you. It's when I get these guys to understand that that's when they make the jump and the beauty of when you get to stay at a place for awhile, you get those examples and these kids all come here with the aspirations of playing in the NBA and they think it has to be about them, about them and, well, yeah, we have a roadmap for you, but through our plan for the team and the university and in the bigger picture.
[00:10:48] And so we, you know, it says that in our maxims, we have a roadmap for your success, but it's by giving that you get to that roadmap.
[00:10:57] Greg Bell: [00:10:57] Isn't that awesome. I mean, just to be able to provide that kind of leadership, and you've been at Boise State for 10 years now, and you've probably seen that come back in that way.
[00:11:08] I mean, that's enough time to get players coming back. Do you have any stories like that where players come back?
[00:11:14] Leon Rice: [00:11:14] That's the most rewarding thing? I mean, I have one player right now that. Just one that hasn't graduated that finished his eligibility here and he just texted me the other day, coach, I'm getting close to being done playing, I want to start finishing my degree. I got to do it. And so those kinds of situations are the most rewarding where you're going, man, these guys are all coming back and they all bleed blue and they're proud of what we're doing and what we're building here.
[00:11:38] And they're proud of their part in it. And now I'm getting to the point where I've got these guys that have gone out there and done these tremendous things. Not only they're proud of it, but they want to give back and they want to help continue to grow it. And that's when you feel a real sense of pride is when they're coming back and even living in the community.
[00:11:55] And then some of them want to go into coaching too, and want to get involved. And so now I've got, I got one of my former players here as a grad assistant, and he's going to be a tremendous coach. So those are, that's what it's about. To be able to see their growth and see, see them after they leave here.
[00:12:11] Because really every day is about preparing them for that. Then we have our, in our culture book, it's called the unbreakable culture because really what I'm trying to do is prepare these guys and make them the unbreakable athlete, the unbreakable father, the unbreakable community members. So they can go on and handle whatever's thrown at them. And they also know that we're there behind them to help them. And by getting through this program, they've won because they've established these habits and these characteristics that are going to help them the rest of their lives.
[00:12:41] Greg Bell: [00:12:41] Well, you've alluded to it and said it directly just now. And it's a lot of things that I think a lot of leaders need to focus on, but sometimes we miss it and this idea of culture, because culture, a lot of people have strategies and strategic plans and they have all these things going for them. But if the culture isn't right, it's not going to work too well. Talk a little bit about that. Like when you came from Gonzaga, which had this tremendous culture, right. That you and Mark and all the other coaches and the administration built there, how do you build a culture when you show, I mean, like you initiated that culture at Boise state. Talk about that. Like imagine a leader right now, listening to this thinking, gosh, my culture is a little in shambles. What would you advise them to do?
[00:13:24] Leon Rice: [00:13:24] Well, first of all, you made a great point: culture trumps schemes, every time. It beats schemes every time. And a great story about this is that I got to see, think about what I've gotten to see the two grit, maybe two of the greatest stories in the history of college athletics.
[00:13:41] Gonzaga basketball and Boise State football. And I got to see how they were built and I got to see him from ground floor up. And then I got to hear the inside stories and see them firsthand. And so when I got here, coach Pete was the coach here and coach Hawkins, who was one of the guys that had initially built this thing.
[00:13:59] And then he left for Colorado and coach Pete took over. Well, when coach Pete went to Washington, coach Hawkins, who I really didn't know that well, and he reached out to me and he was living here in Boise and he said, Hey, I know you and coach Pete used to huddle up a little bit, and I'd love to get together with you and share ideas.
[00:14:14] And I think it was right after a loss. And so I was like, I'll meet you in 10 minutes at Starbucks. And I just needed somebody to talk to. And somebody that got what I was going through. And so we got to be good friends. And I, and I asked him, I said, okay, if you could, you know, he went to Colorado and had some success there, but then it ended, you know, Prematurely with his getting dismissed.
[00:14:34] And I said, you know, if you could go and do it all over again, And learn from what you did at Colorado, what would you do differently? He goes, you know, I was one of, he was one of the brick layers here at Boise for the football program. He goes, I knew how to build culture. I knew how that worked. And you get to this situation at Colorado where they were so close and they had built it and built it.
[00:14:56] And they were, you know, going six and five and the field goal bounces off the uprights to beat Nebraska, or they would've gone seven and four. I mean, they were just so close and so they start scheming more. And he stopped focusing on cultures as much, is what he said. And he goes, I would just completely focus on culture and just pound it because I knew what I was doing and that really, you know, boy that stuck with me.
[00:15:19] And because, you know, you're, there's so much pressure on us to win at this level and to produce winners every year. That you start focusing on schemes and you get away from the things that really make you successful, and that's the healthy culture and the culture that you want and the things that you pound every day.
[00:15:35] And so soon as you start focusing on schemes, I think, you know, you got to get back to the culture of what you believe in and make that look right on a daily basis.
[00:15:44] Greg Bell: [00:15:44] That's super helpful, cause I can think about that in families. I mean anything or people chasing money versus a passion and all these things come up from that perspective,
[00:15:54] Leon Rice: [00:15:54] Absolutely, it applies to everything because you know, when, and here's what happens to us is you stop, you get that culture right on that day. And then the next day was like, Oh, well, let's. We got that. Right. So let's take our thumb off that. And now what if we ran this play differently? Well, then you lose and then you go like dog gonnit. Our culture's about competing. Let's get back to that. We get back to that and then you win again. But it is, it's a daily fight and you know, you got to show up every day, making sure that's right and making sure that's your emphasis.
[00:16:24] And you know, that's when I get to the gym today, that's, we're going to compete. But it's competitive Friday. They love that. Everything we do is a competition and they get after it and it is. And then at the end, we come back together as one unit and do one activity together at the end.
[00:16:40]Greg Bell: [00:16:40] One of the things that you talked about though, that. Actually just many things is sort of just pop off as you sort of talk about culture and how important that is about how it's a fight to stay in it. One of the things I always tell people is I hate pandas. I can't stand them. You know, they're eating my bamboo.
[00:16:54] Leon Rice: [00:16:54] Nobody hates Pandas.
[00:16:58] Greg Bell: [00:16:58] I Know, my kids hate it when I say that I hate pandas. But the thing about it though, a Panda for me is a flirt or distraction from what I'm trying to do. Something that distracts you. It seems kind of cute and it's super small, but it actually gets you off your culture, gets you off your strategy, gets you off on who you are, and it can be a simple thing, like procrastinating on doing the thing you said you were going to do.
[00:17:23] Like it could be super simple. I mean, really simple, not making your bed, whatever that might be. When I think about as a basketball coach, you are leading young men who are actually coming from some challenging backgrounds, too. You have your administration, you've got all these things. You got a lot of pressure on you.
[00:17:43] Well, you got to win games, right? It's sort of part of the job. You've been successful there. What kinds of flirts and distractions come up for you personally? And how do you deal with them? What could get you off your track?
[00:17:55] Leon Rice: [00:17:55] Well, I think the thing that jumps out at me right away is that pressure that we all feel as coaches to win.
[00:18:01]And, Joe Glenn, he was a great coach and he got the Montana job, head coaching job. And he went there and they had been really good the year before. And, you know, Montana football was terrific and he goes and loses his first game. And the pressure's already built after his first game.
[00:18:19] And he goes into the boosters that next day. And he's like, Joe was the greatest guy. Cause his mentality was like, well, I'm going to just do my best. And if it's not good enough, I'll go drive a truck and you almost have to have that mentality. He goes into the boosters that next day. And I said, well, what'd you tell him?
[00:18:34] He said, I told him we're not going to lose another game this year. Well, they didn't, they won every single game and won the national championship and you just kind of have to, you have to cause the pressure of winning and the pressure of having to do that, you know, it takes away from the process that you're talking about, the Water the Bamboo, it takes away from just doing your job every day and focusing on the right things, which is getting all those other things in place.
[00:18:59] Like we're talking about the culture. And so I think that's the biggest hurdle or Panda or distraction that we face as coaches is that, you know, you work all your life to become a head coach and you're in that position. And well, here you go. It's all right here on your shoulders. You're either going to win or you're going to lose.
[00:19:17] I mean, we're in a zero sum game. If you don't deliver, you lose that opportunity. So that pressure just mounts on you. That pressure leads to what I was talking about with Dan Hawkins, where now you're going to just try to tighten everything down and squeeze those schemes and do all that. And you get away from the most important things of what you believe in.
[00:19:37]Greg Bell: [00:19:37] So with a long career like you've had. Success that you've had, you know, at Gonzaga, and at Boise State. And you started off your coaching career, I believe at Oregon. Right?
[00:19:47] Leon Rice: [00:19:47] Right.
[00:19:48] Greg Bell: [00:19:48] And all that success you've had. What advice would you give to the younger Leon Rice? I mean, all the things, you know, all the things you've done, what advice would you give your younger self?
[00:19:59] Leon Rice: [00:19:59] That's a good one because I think I reached back to some of my former players and ask them like that same question, like what could I have done more to help you maybe enjoy it more.
[00:20:12] And that's what I'm learning now at this age. And that's what I, you know, I look back cause all that pressure you put on in that, you know, you and I have talked about this a little bit. Well, I'm going to be happy when I'm a head coach, you know, in 10 years. And when I'm a head coach and we've won and we won the league and the banners come down, that's when I'm going to be happy.
[00:20:32] Well, no, no, no that creates this expectation in this, you know, you're missing the whole point. I mean, Ralph Waldo Emerson has my favorite quote is one of the great illusions in life is that now is not the critical hour. Just to be here, be present, enjoy these moments along the way, because you have these spectacular moments of player development of just those practices where you enjoy the competition and things you're just riding, being able to mentor these guys and all those moments along the way that you need to be able to enjoy, not the prize at the end, where we're going to get there we're going to win a national championship and that's when I'm going to enjoy it.
[00:21:10] That's the best advice that I would give myself where, Hey, this journey along the way, like you said, I enjoy having fun. And I want my players got fun and stuff, but you get caught up in the pressure. Like we have to win this game so we can do this. And then, you know, when we win that championship, that's when I'll be happy and then that's not the right mindset.
[00:21:28] And that sets you up for failure. And that sets you up for a life of unhappiness and there's nothing wrong with having goals. And there's nothing wrong with wanting to do that and striving, but if you're always striving and you're not there in the moment to enjoy it you're really going to be unhappy.
[00:21:43] And I think if my players can understand that because they're so driven to become NBA players. I don't want them to look back on their career and go, man, that was the greatest time when I wasn't a professional. You know, when they get there, if they're thinking, well, I'm going to get there, I'm going to get that paycheck and that's what I'm going to be happy. That's the biggest mistake because they're going to look back on this, and I've talked to former players and they understand that now, and they wish they could have gone back and enjoyed. They loved being in the gym together. They love working their game together. Let's enjoy the heck out of that while we have this moment, because that's all you have is this moment.
[00:22:21] You don't have that. That's, you know, like I said, that's an illusion that that's going to be out there. You don't know. And so being able to teach these guys that. In answer to your question is, is what I would love for myself to have had a better understanding back then. Now I'm not saying I didn't have fun along the way.
[00:22:37] Cause I think I always worked hard at finding out, but I did feel that pressure of those moments. And when Mark took over as the head coach at Gonzaga, I came in that day. I've never felt pressure like that for us , cause we had to get back. We had to capitalize on that moment when you know, Dan went to elite eight as the head coach, and then Mark got moved up and Dan took the Minnesota job.
[00:22:56] And I came on, we had to keep that thing going. We were at the turning point when we knew it. We were, they're going to takeGonzaga program to the places it is now. Or we were going to go back to a WCC program that didn't get there and we felt pressured.
[00:23:10]Greg Bell: [00:23:10] A lot of times, people for me, they talk about and are excited about their bamboo growing. I try to convince them to love the watering. You know, I say water with grace, hope and joy, you know, really, because if you make the process fun, I mean, kind of all these things you're saying about culture and all that, the bamboo will take care of itself.
[00:23:29]And a lot of times people are looking at the result right away. It's like, and it makes no sense on a bamboo farm to dig up the seed to see if it's growing So, so what you're saying is super powerful. The other thing that I think that's interesting is the getting there. Once I get there, that piece you talked about is so interesting because once you get there, the tee falls off, all you have is here.
[00:23:50] Like it. I noticed that a lot, like with even myself, once I'm done with my next book or. I finished the podcast. I do this. And like you're saying here, maybe I got that from you, but just to enjoy the process, I mean, really just have fun as I do it. Like let it go. And that's a really good message for everyone to hear.
[00:24:08] Leon Rice: [00:24:08] it's so valuable. It's a trap. Once this bamboo grows and then I get to see it grow, I'm going to be happy because I've worked so hard to get it to grow. We spend all this time and it grows. You're setting yourself up for disappointment and failure because there might be that short term.
[00:24:22] Like we did it, I did it. It's grown. Then that's gone, that's fleeting. And, and you're going to be unhappy if you, if you're not able to experience, it's like the people that win the lottery. Well, I'll be happy if I can win the lottery and have all this money. Well, you're not happy before you have the money, right?
[00:24:37] How are you going to be happy after you get it yet?
[00:24:39] Greg Bell: [00:24:39] I love that. That's a really good, I always tell people if you can't be happy in a hut, there's no way you can be happy in a mansion. In fact, there's a lot of rooms of beyond happy.
[00:24:53] I like that's really helpful. So another question I wanted to ask of you is I know, well, I just know you personally, so I know you have some success routines, you know, way back in college. I know you, you had them on your best day. What's your success routine? What do you do personally? I'm just trying to have the audience understand that having a routine in your life can set you up having a discipline routine to be successful. Can you share any routines that you have you like on your best day, what's your routine?
[00:25:24] Leon Rice: [00:25:24] You're just a product of your habits. That's what you're preaching. That's what you're teaching. And that's so important. It's like, you know, the person who wants to be in shape and they want to be healthy and they want it, but yet they have no habits.
[00:25:36] They have bad eating habits, they don't exercise daily and they don't all the things that it requires to be in good shape and be healthy. And so they expect this outcome of well, you know, I want to be in great shape, but I don't want to the habit of doing all those things right every day. And I think that's the most important thing we are, what our habits say we are.
[00:25:56] And so I think my best days are when I get some time in the morning where I don't have to rush off to something right away. And when I get some time in the morning to kind of gather my thoughts and center myself and reflect and read and do my spiritual thing in the morning and be able to listen to some of that stuff and just be a peace a little bit where I don't feel hurried and I can kind of gather myself and get myself to that mindset that I have to have in order to serve others.
[00:26:25] And in order to get these guys where they need to be. So I do need that time alone. Everyone else would always ask me, like, what does Mark Few do well and how come he's so good. And I mean, what he's done there is remarkable in the games he's won and the success he's had. Well, what he does is he does the essentials.
[00:26:41] He does the things that are important. He doesn't get distracted by the 200,000 emails that he has on his email that he's never looked at. He's great at doing the essentials. And so when I can really focus on those things, that we've all taught, that we already talked about it when I can focus on my players, when I can focus on my family, when I can focus on doing the things I love, it really clears my head and gives me good perspective where I can help the guys that I need to help in our program. So I think that time, and then that ability to have time to work out so, you know, my body's right. I can physically be there energetically be there every single day.
[00:27:20] Because I think that's the two most important things I'm talking about is I get my mind right, right away. And then I go get my physical activity or that exercise every single day. And I, and I've got a long streak of doing that. And I think that's where it starts. And then if I can have competition in my day, that's what I kind of live for.
[00:27:38] You know, if one of our former players is living here in town right now, Coby Carr, he played in the NBA and I said, Hey, Coby, let's go play pickleball. I've been playing pickleball lately. We'd go play. And he goes like, geez, how old are you? He goes and plays with me and gets hooked. Like I said, he's in his prime athletically still.
[00:27:53] He's a really good athlete. And so we compete. We're having fun. He's diving on the ground and talking trash and I just stopped. And I said, This is the kind of stuff that gets me up in the morning. this is what I live for, just that competent and you know exactly what I'm talking about. We would almost be like, we'd go to the park, you and I and Mark, and all these guys.
[00:28:15] And we just live for that competition. It almost, you talk about getting in zones and stuff. Those were the time in our lives where we just lost track of time and we could be there for an hour or four hours. We didn't know. We just, you know, when you think back on that and I live for that still. And so I picked that up in different ways.
[00:28:34] Like I said, go and play pickleball.
[00:28:35]Greg Bell: [00:28:35] Your routine is interesting. So you have a spiritual practice, physical practice, a mental practice, but then the competition is one of your values.
[00:28:43] So you find a way to fit that in your day. That's a magical day. Right? I think that's really
[00:28:49] good advice.
[00:28:50] Leon Rice: [00:28:50] And that's what I told my guys. You find what you're passionate about. You find what you love to do. I mean, I got one guy who was a Sudanese refugee, and he came to Canada and he lived on ketchup packets. And so, you know, he wants to provide a better life for his family and his future and, you know, in both directions. And, and so there's a pressure there, but the thing that I want them to understand is find what you're passionate about. Find what you love to do, and success will follow you like a tail on a dog and money will follow you. You'll look behind you and it'll always be there. And so that's what I want our guys to understand. So they don't, you know, there's that pressure that creeps in and like, I have to be a good player so I can provide . No, just do what you love to do, do it the best that you can and you're going to be successful at it.
[00:29:37]And then that's that mindset that frees you and put you in those zones that we're talking about.
[00:29:41] Greg Bell: [00:29:41] Man, you got me all fired up, man.
[00:29:44] Leon Rice: [00:29:44] Well, you found that and you had to take a leap of faith, like we talked about and you went away from people, thought you were crazy went, well, why did you go to law school then if you're going to just do this, why did you spend all that time? That's all part of the adventure.
[00:29:58] Greg Bell: [00:29:58] Yeah. People don't tell you. You're crazy. You're probably not doing the right thing.
[00:30:02] Leon Rice: [00:30:02] I had so many people when I left, you know, I had the opportunity to, I was managing a bar, coaching, teaching, and doing all this stuff.
[00:30:10] And the guys that own the bar, you've been to that bar and they wanted to sell me the bar. They were going to carry the note. It was going to be a turnkey operation. And I was going to be, you know, probably reasonably financially secure. And I said, Nope. I want to be a college coach is what I've always wanted to do.
[00:30:27] And, and I'm, I'm out of here. I'm going to go do that for no money. Everyone was like, what are you doing? You're crazy. Stay here. You can do this. You can coach high school. You can do all, you know, no, this is my goal. This is what I've always wanted to do. I'm going to do it. And I walked away from that.
[00:30:43] Greg Bell: [00:30:43] Yeah. Well, talk a little bit more about that start though. I think a lot of times people would look at you and go, wow, he's just instantly, you know, the bamboo grew overnight here. He is. The head coach at Boise State wins all these games, goes to the tournament, coach of the year. Like it was just overnight. And you just said you went coaching for no money.
[00:31:02] I mean, tell us that story a little bit, because I know folks don't know that story, but it'd be interesting to sort of think about you know, you got a couple of hundred bucks in the bank maybe. And then your take on this, what grad assistant job is that? How you got going?
[00:31:15] Leon Rice: [00:31:15] Well, it was started out as a volunteer and it grew, and it grew every year, you know, I just tried to do the best I could.
[00:31:21] And, you know, I remember going to George Raveling camps and listening to him speak when, when I was a kid. And he used to say, if you're a street sweeper, you do the sweeping like a host of heavenly angels did it. So, you know, I went, I got a volunteer position with Don Munson and I wrote letters to, this is the back in the day, when you had to write letters to all these places, you know, there was no internet, there was no email.
[00:31:47] There was, you know, I wrote letters to every university trying to get a grad assistant job. And I, to this day I have those hundred and some odd rejection letters. And I, I save them. I have a rejection letter from every place I worked. So, you know, like you told me no, but I'm not going to listen. In fact, I the Oregon one, I got from Don, he on the bottom of it had handwritten a note.
[00:32:09] And to me that was like, Oh wait, he knows who I am. He hand wrote on the bottom of it. So you're saying I got a chance. So I just kept pastoring and kept you know, I tracked him down in a bar one night at an AAU event and told him I'd like to volunteer for him. And he said, you get into grad school and I'll give you a shirt and let you stand around with your hands in your pocket. And I was like, deal. I was, I was so excited to get that. And so I went down there and so I remember I, one of the first jobs he gave me, he was like, Hey, the new Nike's came in and you know, the, the shoe laces aren't in the shoes.
[00:32:42] And so can you get them all ready for the guys and put them out by their lockers and everything? And I took those shoelaces and it was like a host of heavenly angels. Put those shoelaces in the shoes and I tied the knot and I put them in front of each guy's locker and I'm like, that's the job he gave me.
[00:32:57] I'm going to do the greatest job I can do on that. Well, then that led to another thing and then another thing and another, and I developed, you know, he developed some trust in me by doing whatever he gave me the best that I possibly could. And I wasn't above that job of putting in those shoelaces and, and that, you know, I think that's you look back on that 34 years ago, and that's why I'm sitting where I am, I think, and everybody wants, everybody wants my job now. Nobody wants to put in the shoelaces.
[00:33:26] Greg Bell: [00:33:26] That's it! Like that's the interesting thing, because we have you know, a lot of young folks want to be, you know, the VP, they want to be the top. They want to be the leader or whatever. But are they willing to put in the shoe laces, wow. Like a heavenly angel.
[00:33:40]Leon Rice: [00:33:40] Like I just pictured a light coming down from the heavens shining on those shoes.
[00:33:46] I did it, you know, and I stayed after, you know, I was there all night putting in the, no, that's not right. That was the first job. That was the first thing that, and, you know, and then that led to one another, you know, another thing and another, even another thing, and just kind of grew his trust and...
[00:34:02]Greg Bell: [00:34:02] That's an important concept though, coach, because one of the things that I advocate with all my clients and everyone, do the job you have.
[00:34:11] You know, a lot of times, I mean, you've talked about being present, do the job you have right now. Handle that, people are trying to multitask and all that, you actually can multitask, you just can't multifocus, like one thing at a time. And I think that's a really important thing.
[00:34:28] But I want to go back to something you said about coach Few, you know, a dear friend of ours and you worked with him for a long time.
[00:34:35] One of the things that's interesting that you sort of said, though, is just focus on the essentials. Like a lot of times I see people focusing on everything and you can't do everything . I mean, that's, that's an important concept for people to sort of glean from what your remarks were, even in your own, like looking at your own routine.
[00:34:54] What's really important here. Cause if it did everything one of the things I talked about with Water the Bamboo is that you can water a Grove of bamboo, but you can't water acres and acres and acres of bamboo. You only have so much time and energy. So I just, I just want to sort of highlight that a little bit and have you respond to that.
[00:35:11] Leon Rice: [00:35:11] That is so true that do what's essential and that, you know, for me, you know, I need the discipline. I mean, I need to know, okay, I told you what was essential to me to have success. You said, well, what's your best thing. I actually time those things that I do to make sure I'm getting them in. And I never miss a day.
[00:35:29] You know, sometimes I have these crazy busy, long days and I get to the end of the day and I'm like, you know what, I have not had my minimum workout time. I have not had, so it might be 2:00 AM. And I just got off a flight and I've worked 18 hours. Well, I got to go do it and it just keeps that discipline to do it everyday.
[00:35:47] But I physically time those things. So, you know, you think, well that you're physically time your peaceful moments. Absolutely. Because I need that discipline to be able to, okay, god, today's been a crazy day. I had to, you know, I had a six o'clock meeting in the morning and then I had to go to this and then I had to do that.
[00:36:06] And then we had to travel. And then I, well, if I didn't set that time out to do it I got to find that keeps me disciplined to do the things that are essential and the things that are really important because otherwise you get to the end of the day and you're like, Oh, I just didn't have time for that today. I'll do double tomorrow or something like that, that doesn't work for me. And so it's those things that I said I have to do. I make my time. I'm on my phone and you know, I think my wife thinks I'm a little crazy.
[00:36:33]Greg Bell: [00:36:33] Yeah, but I think that that idea of discipline you're talking about is so, so important. I mean, that is like the essential ingredient of any Bamboo Farmer you got to know what's important. So I appreciate that.
[00:36:43] One of the things I think will help here though. Like we've talking about you winning, right? You've won a lot in your life from your time at Oregon to Gonzaga, to Boise state. You've won a lot, but I really want to have you help the audience who, they haven't won a lot let's just say, how do you help your team over like a heartbreaking loss? What do you talk about to them? How do you in thinking with the audience in mind that, I mean, losing is hard. Winning is kind of easy, right? We won, but how do you recover from loss?
[00:37:13] Leon Rice: [00:37:13] I thought in my mind, we had a bad practice yesterday you know, the thing I hit these guys on. Is that the most important thing is our response. Always our response. Okay. The great ones are not absent of failure. I mean, you look at Tom Brady, look at Michael Jordan, what they are is they have the perfect response to failure. That's what the great ones can do.
[00:37:35] You watch the golfers, the great golfers. They're going to hit bad shots. But then the next one's not going to be bad. You never see golfers hit two bad shots in a row. The really good ones. It's amazing. I mean, because they have the perfect response to their mistake. Now the, maybe the ones that aren't that level yet, that mistake's going to get in their head and they're going to get up to the ball and they can't let go of it.
[00:37:57] And they, they don't respond the right way. You know, like Tom Brady throws an interception, you know, you can count on him leading them on a drive or leading them on a come back. And it's not that he doesn't make those mistakes that we all make. He has the perfect response. And that's when I try to teach our guys, we, we may have a bad practice yesterday.
[00:38:16] Okay, let's have the perfect response to it. Yesterday it was a loss. We're treating it as a loss cause we just didn't show up with the great energy. I mean, it wasn't awful, but it wasn't to our standard that we need to get better at, especially with these limited number of practices that we might have.
[00:38:32] So we have to respond the right way today. So that's what today is going to be about. Let's respond. How good can we, you know, we made a mistake, we screwed things up. Let's let's respond because you know, you talk about sports. Sports are all a game of mistakes. There is no game of perfect, you know, golf is not a game of perfect tennis is not a game of perfect whatever you're doing.
[00:38:53] Same with life. It's not a game of perfect. It's going to be mistake after mistake, after mistake. It's all about how we respond to that and how we can keep fighting the next day and be able to move on and have it not affect us. You know, you talked about, you know, us being competitive and stuff. Yeah. It hurts when we lose and we don't want to make mistakes and it, but that ability to just focus on getting beyond that and going onto the next play and finding another way.
[00:39:20] And that's what I want to teach our guys through basketball is that ability to do that one it's going to live is going to hit you in the face and they're going to be losses. And, and losses, you, you know, that are gonna hurt and they're gonna break some people, but if they don't break you and that's when we go back to that breakable culture, unbreakable players and the unbreakable athlete that they can handle those and they know they're built to respond to that.
[00:39:44]Greg Bell: [00:39:44] When you're talking about, that I was sorta thinking about lions. You know, they chase Gazelles, like all their body they go after and they miss like 80% of them and never once has anyone ever seen a pouting lion.
[00:39:56] Leon Rice: [00:39:56] The pouting one's dead. The pouting one goes hungry.
[00:40:01]It is it's so true. Double back on one of the things that is in our Maxim book that you talked about, you know, when you come to Boise State, you're going to have a role. And every role is important and your job is to be a star in that role, we do this player evaluation sheet where they all have to evaluate each other and it's really neat when you've been at a place for awhile, because you get to physically see the growth of a person by where they were rated. And where their attitude and their ability was rated. And, you know, you see a Chandler Hutchinson who comes in and he was rated the eight, nine, 10th best player on our team.
[00:40:36] Well, he had to become a star in that role. Before he could move to the next role and you just saw his growth and you can just chart it and see it. Well, then he moved up to fifth or six. Well, he had to be a star there before he could move on to be the number one guy on our team, let alone one of the top 22 players in the country.
[00:40:54] Think about that. Wow. He was the 10th best player on our team as a freshman and became a 22nd player in the draft. And so, but it was his ability to become a star in that role so he can move on to the next one. Well, for me to be a successful head coach, I had to be a star in that volunteer role and that meant putting in the shoe laces.
[00:41:15] And so I think if you approach it that way, like I'm going to be a star where I am right now and I'm going to do my job. And that's one of the things that you hear Bellicheck, talk about those guys that you gotta be able to do that job that you're in now, because that's going to help you down the road.
[00:41:29]Greg Bell: [00:41:29] I think I'm going to have to put that in the next a book, be a star in your role.
[00:41:34] Leon Rice: [00:41:34] It's so important. And your role is like I said, whether it's sweeping the gym or whether it's putting the shoelaces in and whatever it is that day, the ones that can do that, are the ones that are special down the road.
[00:41:47]Greg Bell: [00:41:47] What question haven't I asked you that I should have asked you?
[00:41:52]Leon Rice: [00:41:52] You've done a great job. You asked questions that make me go. Boy, I can't think of any that you haven't asked.
[00:41:58]Greg Bell: [00:41:58] One question I do want you to address. It's kind of interesting. I don't even know if this is even part of the podcast, but for me, I think it's just an interesting situation where you're coaching your son, right? Who is a terrific basketball player. How do you do that? What's your approach with him? I mean, I'm just curious what you would say about that.
[00:42:14]Leon Rice: [00:42:14] Well, I think this goes back to raising my sons. I have three boys and with my schedule and their schedule, and they had lots of interests and things going on everywhere. And I told him, I said, here's all I want from you, passion, whatever you do, whether it's, if you're going to go play the trombone, if you're going to go be in the dance recital, if you're going to play sports, whatever you do, you do it with passion.
[00:42:37] And then I'll just love watching you. Because I'm busy and we got three boys and I'm going to have to make choices of where I can be and what I can go watch. If you're doing it with passion, all love to watch it. I'll be there as much as I can, but if you're doing something and you're not passionate about it, well, then you're wasting your time and you're wasting my time and we can't do that.
[00:42:57] And so I think that was the one thing that carried over for them. They just, whatever they did, they played really hard, all three of them. And so, you know, that's a great place to start. You just do things that you're passionate about and that you want to do. And then it's fun to watch. It's a lot of fun to watch.
[00:43:12] And I think that's kind of the base that I tried to give them. And it seemed to, you know, that seemed to work, you know, I don't know if it was that or, or what, but they played really, really hard or did whatever they did. They did it really, really hard. And so. When I got Max to come play for me it was interesting and it kind of evolved, we, you know, you didn't know what to call each other. Cause you know, he would call me dad accidentally and I would, you know, and so I just started calling him 12. Cause when we get to the gym, he wasn't Max, he was number 12. And so I just started calling him 12 and it kinda just stuck. And everybody calls him that, 12 now, and nobody calls him Max.
[00:43:50] So he just, it's almost like he became a different person. You know, it's a superhero identity. He gets to be number 12. So coaching is great. Cause he's got a terrific feel and he's competitive. And he cares about the team first. That's probably the biggest thing is that all his teammates, a bunch of them, we have on the player eval sheet that I said, they almost to a man. Said that they love to play with Max and they list the guys they like to play with. And he was right there at the top of who they liked to play with. And because he cares about the team. And a great example of that is we had this amazing comeback. We were down 18 points with four minutes and 29 seconds to go against Utah state. Max, you know, I had emptied the bench and all the freshmen were out there and Max and these freshmen came back and got us into overtime. And, you know, I'm one of those guys that I'm not going to tamper with success. We're having success. I'm not going to, well, I had met some of my best players on the bench and Max comes over to, you know, I'm not going to mess with it.
[00:44:52] I'll get booed out of the gym. If I take that team out and Max comes over to me, he was like, put in Austin and I'm looking at Austin, you know, he's, he was our best player. And I'm looking at Max and I'm looking at all. I'm like, well, who, you know, what am I going to do? I'm not going to take out one.. and he goes put them in for me.
[00:45:10] And I'm like, wow. Okay. And so we jumped, we went in the jump, you know, first dead ball. I get Austin back in there. He scored six straight points to give us the lead and overtime. We never looked back, but it was such an unselfish move and it was a move that was best for the team. And it was the right move.
[00:45:28]He was ready to go. And he went in and lit it up and scored six points to start the overtime. And we win in overtime.
[00:45:34]Greg Bell: [00:45:34] What's crazy about that story, cause I've heard that story before Max made three, three pointers to get you going in that, right?
[00:45:41] Leon Rice: [00:45:41] I think he had a three, he got a steal and layup and yeah, he had done some great things.
[00:45:47] Greg Bell: [00:45:47] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's interesting. And then he would sort of, you know, he was actually part of the reason you got into overtime, but willing to sort of think about the team. I mean, that's a really great example.
[00:45:58]Leon Rice: [00:45:58] In his mind this comeback didn't mean a thing, unless we won this overtime because that's what he's about.
[00:46:04] He's about to get the best for the team and the players know he's about that. So it makes, it makes it easy, but I've had one of them say to me, God, I completely forgot that Max was your son, you know, because you know, it sounds cheesy and corny, but when you come into our program, it's a family.
[00:46:22] And every one of those guys, just my son in their own way, you know, especially when they're, you know, in the Bronco uniforms. And so I think that does resonate with those guys. They know like, you know, I'm probably harder on him and don't give him maybe cause your subconscious kind of...
[00:46:38] Greg Bell: [00:46:38] Yeah, it's kind of hard to do that. What parting words would you give to Bamboo Nation? You know, just think about the folks listening are business leaders. They're they have teams they're trying to manage, bamboo fans. What advice would you give any of them?
[00:46:51] Leon Rice: [00:46:51] I think the theme that we talked about right now and the theme, that's so important that the message that we need to get to everybody is that the moment and all these great things, I mean, look what I get to look at right now and how beautiful it is and, and just be able to experience this time with you in this.
[00:47:06] Not onto the next thing, not in the future. I mean, we play Kansas in 28 days. I can't think about that right now. I gotta focus on this moment and this time we get to share together and maybe being able to help somebody with something that they could have picked up in this podcast and in this message.
[00:47:25] So that ability to just stay in this moment in and enjoy it, enjoy this gift that we've had that we have right now, because. Like that quote, my favorite quote. Like it's an illusion, the future. That this moment is the thing that we have and it's real. And that ability to enjoy this, not idealize some future thing that's going to happen.
[00:47:47] Like, boy, coaching will be great when we win the championship. Coaching will be great when we get to play those games. It's great right now, I get to go and help these guys and we get it. I get to see how they respond today after a tough day yesterday and see what happens and this moment's going to be terrific.
[00:48:05] Greg Bell: [00:48:05] That is awesome. That is so good. Stay in the moment. I like that.
[00:48:09] Leon Rice: [00:48:09] And that's what you're teaching, that's why it's so valuable. That's why I love that book, Water the Bamboo and that helped me. I mean, I'm so much better at understanding this now than what I was 10 years ago. I took this job and like you said, I wish I could go back in time and read that Water the Bamboo now, you know, back then and understand it more back then that would help me, but not have done that. It's just part of the journey and part of what made me create it more. And it's what I had to go through.
[00:48:38] You know, I think Greg, the other thing that I would say is, is that ability to embrace these failures and embrace, you know, as a younger coach, you had a bad day and your team didn't maybe look great and you well, you worry about like, Oh no, are we not any good? Am I going to, and you start to get all these irrational thoughts of, well, our record is going to be 8-20 and they're going to fire me and you go 10 different places that aren't even real. So that ability to understand that, well, no, that is a thing that I can fix and I will fix it and our team will fix it.
[00:49:13] And if you worry about a problem that you can fix, but you don't worry about things that you can't fix that would be wasted. So that ability to do that is what I would say. Understand that, that as leaders, failures are great teaching lessons and everything's not going to go perfect.
[00:49:30] That's why they pay you to be the leader is that you can look at that. Sometimes I think I heard Phil Jackson talk about Dennis Rodman, coaching Dennis Rodman. And if you worried and you didn't try to fight everything that he did, and it was just going to be a problem. But Phil said that he would look at Dennis Rodman like he would look at a log floating down a river, like, Oh my God, that's interesting.
[00:49:51] Look at that. What the heck are you doing today? And just be able to, not there's times when in coaching, where. I have to look at some of those behaviors like that. Well that guy's not reacting the right way. Well, instead of letting it get me off my course and get me mad and getting under my skin when he's not learning, we've had to tell him three times and he, no, I'm just watching it.
[00:50:12] And I'm like, well, that's interesting. We got to fix that and not let it get to you emotionally and not let it change the way you're coaching because it affects you. And I think that was when you have that ability to be able to look at those problems that way, where it's just. No, it's a log floating down the river and it has no effect on you.
[00:50:31]Greg Bell: [00:50:31] It reminds you of that idea that when you deal with people, one of the things I advocate for people to do is to be more like an anthropologist, curious, and neutral, like, Oh, what are the humans doing here? Like take notes.
[00:50:46]Leon Rice: [00:50:46] Absolutely. And you're a better coach and a better leader and a better manager. And you'll enjoy it more when you can do that. And I find myself doing that and you know, you coach these guys and you want them to change 20 years of habits because you said, Hey, do it this way. Well, it takes time and it takes persistence and it takes consistent.
[00:51:07] So if it gets to you in an affects your emotions and affects the way you coach, you're not going to do as good a job with it. And so that ability to just look at it, and like you said, I love that. And anthropologists, like, that's interesting. I wonder why he's still doing that. It's healthy and it's so, but it's hard to do because you want all your ducks in a row.
[00:51:30] You want everything to go, right. But it's not, you know, That ability to do that, you know, and that's why Phil Jackson got the most out of Dennis Rodman and the most out of his team that had Dennis Rodman things that Rodman did, would have caused him to blow up the team and cause a problem. But they were able to accomplish the mission because of the way Phil Jackson could handle that.
[00:51:51]Greg Bell: [00:51:51] My daughter is this phenomenal Hooper, but it's hilarious to me to watch her play like how I watch her play. Now I just watch. But before, when she was young, I would actually have a stack of index cards of all the things she needed to work on. Oh, you can just write them down. I'd write all these things that she needs to work on this and this and this, and, you know, coach, I never gave them to her.
[00:52:12] I never did. It because it was more therapy. This just write this time. So I could just calm down
[00:52:19] Leon Rice: [00:52:19] That's a great lesson, because I used to, when Max was in high school, I would almost root for failure. I wanted to see him miss a free throw that could maybe cost him a game. And all these other parents around me, when their kid would fail, they were almost tortured.
[00:52:35] It was, you could see the pain in their face. And I thought to myself, well, you know, for Max to be a great college player that he wants to that's his goal. He wanted to be a college player. He wanted to become a high level player. He needed to fail. So he would keep working and work because it drove him.
[00:52:50]And he would fix like, okay, he's got a loose handle. Well, the moment he gets picked for game point, he's not gonna let that happen again. I think when you can look at failure that way, like the way I look at practice yesterday, we needed to have that. We need to have some L's before we go play real games. We're opening with Kansas for crying out loud, and they're going to create some adversity for us if we don't face that now. And if we don't have that in practice now I can't teach them and we can't move on and get better from it. And so I have to look at it that way. And when you can look at that way, It's so much better.
[00:53:24]And it's really hard to do as a parent, because you don't want them to fail, you don't want them to suffer. You don't want them to have any pain, but it's that pain is that that's going to cause the growth. And one of my sons played lacrosse and I knew nothing about lacrosse.
[00:53:39] It was great. And I go to their practice and I'm watching them, you know, I would do what you would do. When we'd go watch basketball, I'd see 77 things that went wrong that day. And well, why aren't you doing this? And it would be more efficient to do this. And I, you know, in my mind, I didn't have no cards, but I, in my mind, I had 77 of them after every, you know, and I go watch him play lacrosse and I'm watching.
[00:54:00] And and I know nothing about the game and he gets in the car and I was like, man, that looked like fun. Looks like you guys had fun today. And it, it was like an epiphany. I was like, my goodness, that's the way I should be with basketball, you know, just empty mind and let it be what it is not like we got to fix everything.
[00:54:17] I think I learned a lesson when I got to watch them play lacrosse. It that's how we should approach everything they do is like. Man you look like you're having joy out there
[00:54:26] Greg Bell: [00:54:26] That goes back to your, your original values of having fun.
[00:54:30]Leon Rice: [00:54:30] And it goes back to what you're saying. What were the three joy and
[00:54:34] Greg Bell: [00:54:34] Water with grace, hope, and joy I always say.
[00:54:36] Leon Rice: [00:54:36] Grace, hope, and joy.
[00:54:38] Greg Bell: [00:54:38] Actually. I have three daughters. That's those are the middle names. Grace, hope ,and joy.
[00:54:43] Leon Rice: [00:54:43] This hope is such an important thing. Hope is as important as the air I'm breathing right now and the water I get to drink and without hope. And, and that's where a lot of people I think are suffering right now is because they feel like there's so much uncertainty ahead of them that they've lost some of their hope.
[00:55:00] And, and that's what we have to get back. And I love that, that, that you, that you, those three, terrific.
[00:55:07] Greg Bell: [00:55:07] I know your time is getting short, but I wanted to sort of tell you this funny story and see if you can apply it somehow I imagine you would. I remember you're talking about your kids playing basketball.
[00:55:16] When my daughter was in, I want to say fifth grade, she's a shooter. Like she likes to shoot. So one day I'm watching a game and she shoots this three, you know, fifth grader just launches it all net. And then she finds me in the little crowd of parents and looks at me. Right. And I thought, Oh no, this isn't good.
[00:55:35] You know, like, she's looking to see that dad. And I thought, wait a minute, she's playing for me. So that weekend I took her to the side of the house and I told her, I said, we're gonna, I'm going to teach you how to miss. She's like, what? I want to show you how to miss. And so I said, okay, get on the side of the hoop and shoot the ball, you know, and hit the rim.
[00:55:55] So she hits the rim and hits the rim over and over like 10 times I go, wow, you're really good at missing. This is really good. I said, now shoot it over the rim, you know, on the side. And it's got to hit the rim and I'll be on their side and I'll catch it. So she shoots it, it hits the rim. It goes in. I go, no, no, no, no, you got to miss.
[00:56:11] So she shoots it. It keeps going in. Right. Cause he hits the rim and it just bounces. And I go, Hey, you're not doing it. Right. And I start yelling at her like, you know, pretend yelling. So I said, ah, you don't know how to, you don't know how to do this. And so she she's gets mad and takes the ball and just throws it down the street.
[00:56:30] I go, okay. Okay. Okay. I'll get it. And I said, just try one more time. It's got to go over the front part of the room. It's got to hit the back. So she hits the brim and it goes in, I take the ball and I just slam it down. It goes like 20 feet high. And I go into the kitchen. I just go in the kitchen, like heck with this kid.
[00:56:45] And I'm in there kind of washing dishes and goofing around. And she, I know she's going to follow me in there. And so she calls me and says, dad, What's going on. Like I go, you're just not listening. I said, she goes what do you mean? I'm not listening? I said, I try to get you to miss. And you made those shots.
[00:56:58] It's just like, what are you talking about? I go, did you learn anything? She goes, no, I didn't learn anything. You're crazy. She was just so mad. And I said to her, I said, Hey you did learn something when you shot the ball short, what happened? Well, I missed every time. I said, when you shot it long, what happened?
[00:57:16] I made it every time. I was like interesting. I said, do you know what that's called? The hoop? You know what that's called? She said a basket. No, a field goal, a goal is close. I said, it's a goal, right? So if you go short on your goals, you are going to miss every time. But if you go long, you got a chance.
[00:57:38] Just to have her relax about making a missing, like I'm going to love you anyway. I don't care. Like if you make her miss that's really the lesson I wanted to give her, like, just shoot it. Don't look at me.
[00:57:49] Leon Rice: [00:57:49] That's a great lesson and what a powerful, she'll never forget that little lesson that that, that that's so much we're, we're so on the same page with that.
[00:57:58] And, and just that ability to. You know, it goes back to that ability to respond and then understand that it is a game of mistakes and life is a game of mistakes and things are gonna happen and, you know, next play. So we, you know, we have a saying with our program it's so what now, what, so what now what. I got that from Chuck Pagano. I love it.
[00:58:21] Greg Bell: [00:58:21] So what now what. I'm writing it down. That's really good.
[00:58:25] Leon Rice: [00:58:25] And it helped. And, and, you know, that's what I told our guys. That's what we're facing this year. Right. That's what we're going to get quarantine. We're going to have to shut down practice. We're going to have to, hopefully we don't have to shut down many games, but if we do so what now what. We just can't pout, we can't feel sorry for ourselves. We just got to regroup. Get up and respond.
[00:58:47] Greg Bell: [00:58:47] That's awesome. Thank you for that. That's a good way to sort of wrap this up.
[00:58:51]You have to do the Water the Bamboo oath though. I have my Water the Bamboo band on, so you have to raise your band hand and repeat after me.
[00:59:00] No matter what challenges come my way.
[00:59:02] Leon Rice: [00:59:02] No matter what challenges come my way.
[00:59:04]Greg Bell: [00:59:04] I will.
[00:59:05] Leon Rice: [00:59:05] I will.
[00:59:06]Greg Bell: [00:59:06] Continue to Water the Bamboo.
[00:59:08]Leon Rice: [00:59:08] Continue to Water the Bamboo.
[00:59:14] Greg Bell: [00:59:14] You were awesome, man. Thank you so much for doing this.
[00:59:17] Leon Rice: [00:59:17] I enjoyed it Greg. Always great to get together with you. And you know, you said it to me the other day, but I walk away energized. I can't wait to get to practice today so we can see the response and you motivated the motivator, as you said.
[00:59:31] Yay. Love it, man.
[00:59:33] Greg Bell: [00:59:33] Take care. Okay. All right. Thank you very much.
[00:59:36] Leon Rice: [00:59:36] Talk to you soon.